360 going out of tune

anon · Post by **anon** » Fri Dec 08, 2000 11:10 pm

Is it me, am I crazy, or does the 360 go out of tune easily? Seems most problematic on the g string. Or does that just mean I play too hard and the guitar needs adjustment? I got it new, it hadn't even been played by anyone else when I got it. Is this a common complaint about the 360?

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat Dec 16, 2000 6:46 pm

Properly setup and properly strung the Model 360 does not go out of tune easily. This is not a common complaint at least to my knowledge. You might like to pose this question under the "Ask A Rickenbacker Luthier" and see what readers have to say that frequent that particular topic.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Sun Dec 17, 2000 9:08 am

This is something that is commonly heard on any electric .I first heard this AFTER I quit working at the Rickenbacker /Electro factory and got a taste of "in the field".

When I worked gor Klaus Heyne in San Francisco,Calif. USA ...He showed me a couple of cool tricks that I carry to this day.
There are 2 ways that are correct ,to put strings on a guitar .It doesn't matter what brand they are ,just that you use one of the 2 .They always work .Ant other way and you get tuning problem.

Paul Kantner of 'Jefferson Airplane/Starship' was a constant customer.He was thrilled that an ex-Rick employee was in the area to fix/repair/babysit his 12strings.
He was always having tuning problems .After the guitars would leave the shop ,they were great .Months would go by and then then would show up again.Same problem.Won't stay in tune .

When they showed up ,you could tell what the problem was .Stringing!
This seems to be the biggest problem ,and as we were working on Santana's ,Journey's,Jeff.Starship's,and other BIG bands of the day gear ...I came up with a Saturday (shop was usually closed )stringing class for the rock stars.
It worked ! It was really a fun day with most of these guys and their guitar techs in the shop.

I'd say this could be your problem.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Dec 17, 2000 10:46 am

Mark: Was this one of the stringing techniques?

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Sun Dec 17, 2000 3:35 pm

YES! this is version one .It's really great !

But it has one drawback.Playing live and breaking a string is cause for 'madness' trying to remove the knotted end from the tuner.

So the 'live' way is this .And I'll give reasons for this.

You slide the string thru the tuner and leave about a gap on the fretboard of a hands width between the string and the fretboard.
Loop the string around the top of the post first,pull the string end up and then all the other wraps go under the string one under the other.
Pull the string tight and stretch it .

I pull each of the strings (starting at the 5th fret and then at the octave and then over the soundhole/pickup area .Then tune
I then restretch the strings and retune.

this works the best .If you break a string ,the remnant comes right off.No special knot to undo.

When you are done you should have one wrap over the end of the string (that is sticking out of the hole in the tuner post) and 2 to 5 wraps under the hole/string end.

For Fender's it is yet another story .That is ,when they use old style Klusons .
On those you pull the string tight ,cut off the string at 3 tuners length past the tuner the string goes into and then wind down.
On Vintage style guitars (from Fender) that have one string retainer clip,the D and the G string ...cut the string 4 tuners past the tuner you are winding it on to.

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu Dec 28, 2000 7:16 am

Mark: This is the technique that I have used for years. I can't recall at this point where I learned about it, perhaps from another guitarist. It is easy to change broken strings quickly, as you say and the strings stay in tune. So do you use the second technique to wind strings in the slots of the Rickenbacker 12 string?

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Thu Dec 28, 2000 11:03 am

On a Rick 12 string this is what I do;

first -if the nameplate is not trimmed to the 'old style' ...I trim it .This allows for more access to the slots .I then sand the sides to at least 600 and polish .This also champhers the edge slightly (something that bill Meyers did for me and said to do to the really nice 12 strings that hit the bench.

The strings that are on the "Normal" tuners get the one over the top and the rest down (except those with original Kluson tuners -these have a shorter shaft than the newer tuners and some of the low E strings must be wound up!)

The stings that are on the tuners in the slots are strung this way .(this was official check out station method in the early 1970's)
Cut the string ,two tuners in length PAST the tuner it is going to.
Put a bend in the string 1/4" from the end and kink it .
Install string end in tuner and wind the string to the OUTSIDE of the headstock.
This will allow for less drag on the nameplate,and less tuning problems.The pinging and jumping of the strings will be lessened.This is an accumulative issue and not seen at first,definately not in assembly at the factory.
By string to the outside of the headstock ,the strings are always pulling to the center .This tension holds the strings in tune better.They must not overlap each layer ...it should be a nice neat layering .

Greg_Simmons · Post by **Greg_Simmons** » Fri Dec 29, 2000 3:36 pm

Mark is THE man - I had the privilege of having him do some work on my Carl Wilson 360/12 in early December - a beautiful guitar became a properly set up (w/12 string saddle), intonated, stay-in-tune (within reason), beautiful guitar

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Thu Jan 04, 2001 1:31 am

Thank you Greg ,and the pleasure was all mine .

You have a beautiful instrument and I'm glad to have fine tuned it for you .The fact that you came down from Edmonton alberta Canada to have me work on it was amazing !

I'm truely glad it is what you hoped for and that what I did made it that much better for you .

Happy New year .

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Tue Jan 30, 2001 3:47 pm

Tuning problems?
I have a 360 six string which had tuning problems.
I have cured it as far as I am concerned.
What I did was to hand tighten the screws in the tuning heads. This puts a little more tension on the tuners.
I fit strings using the locking method. You know by bending the free end back and under the string to get it to lock.
I also put a very small amount of Silicon grease in the nut slots. This allows the strings to slip in the slots to avoid snagging. I have had no trouble at all.
Oh yes, use good quality strings!
Regards,
Mark.