Why are Pyramid strings suddenly the worst?

[ric340JG]

OK, I have to raise an issue here that the members of this forum obvioulsy seem to have resolved when strings are in question, and that is: why have Pyramid strings suddenly fallen out of favor as the best (flatwound) strings for Ricks and their place has been taken by Thomastik-Infeld?

When I say "suddenly", I don't mean overnight, but over a certain relatively short period. I remember a time, not all that long ago, when Pyramids were all the rage. And for good reason, at least it seems.

There is a series of articles on the Internet from the Dec 1994 issue of "Vintage Guitar" that absolutely glorify Pyramid strings, claiming they were the ones used by the Beatles! Please see links below:

http://www.sobstrings.net/article10.htm
http://www.sobstrings.net/article15.htm

Then there were articles all over the Internet about Roger McGuinn using Pyramids:

http://www.ibiblio.org/jimmy/mcguinn/ByrdsFAQ.html

Quote:

"What are the best strings and gauges to use on a Rickenbacker 12-string?

Pyramid Gold The Ultimate 12-String Set. Pure Nickel Flat Wire Wound Strings with Silver-Plated Plain Strings. Gauges are .010/.010 , .013/.013 , .010/.020w , .013/.030 , .020w/.035 . .030/.0465 $36.00 each. They are expensive, but these 12-String sets have the best sound and last many times longer than traditional strings."

And here is what the Pyramid Strings site itself says:

Roger McGuinn, founder of "The Byrds" - favours uses, and loves the Pyramid Gold pure nickel flat wound .010 - .0465, 12-string set !

Says Mr. McGuinn about Pyramid strings,

"Pyramid Gold flat wound strings bring back the sound that made me fall in love with the electric 12-string guitar, and they last much longer too!" - Roger

http://www.mcguinn.com
http://www.folkden.com

Also, we know that Pyramid Gold Bass strings were developed in 1956 in association with Walter Hofner for the first Hofner 500/1 electric bass guitar.

Yet, the vast majority of members of these boards favor Rickenbacker strings, Thomastik-Infeld, or D'Addario Chromes, and only three (myself included) have voted for the Pyramids.

Not that I have anything against the other string brands, but how has it happened that Pyramid strings have gone from the best to the worst strings for Rick (and other) guitars?

Bojan Drndic

[doctorno]

I think all four - Pyramid, Rickenbacker, Thomastik and d´Addario - make very good strings. I have tried Pyramid strings with my Rickenbackers as well as d´Addarios but I achieved the best results with the stock Rickenbacker strings. This is all, that I can tell you. Another point may be that John Hall seems to dislike Pyramid strings for some reason.

[jingle_jangle]

Bojan, have you ever played Pyramids?

It can be like putting your fingertips in a cheese slicer...

Tension is high. There has been an issue for awhile with Rick necks and this high tension, especially on 12s. Stringing a new Rick under warranty, with Pyramids, is a sure way to void the warranty in cases of neck distortion and fretboard cracks, snapped truss rods, and anything having to do with string tension.

Then there's the fact that the "formula" for Pyramids has changed over the decades, to the point where the "new" Pyramids do not resemble the "old" (Beatles) Pyramids in construction, metallurgy, sound, or feel. I can speak from experience, as one of my solidbodies (a '67 625) is strung with a set of vintage Pyramids from the era, and a couple of my other, newer, Ricks, have had new Pyramids at one time or another.

On the other hand, I've put TI nickel flats on a number of Rick 12s recently, including my own CW12, and they are the closest thing yet in a new string to recapture the vintage jangle and nice, soft feel of the old nickel flatwounds. And, they are a comfortable tension.

[ric340JG]

Thank you for responding Marcus and Paul . . .

Paul, I have played all four of the "contenders": Pyramid, TI, Rick (compressed), and D'Addario round wounds (I haven't used the chromes). I am currently using Pyramids on my Ric 340/6. The main problem I had with the D"Addarios is that they are too thin, too unstable, for lack of a better word, and whenever I play a chord at least one of the strings bends out of tune. That is exactly why I like the Pyramid's greater tension, making it more stable. I have a Strat fitted with Gibson 12-56 roundwound strings and I am quite accustomed to playing heavy strings (even though these are designated as "medium gauge"). Anyway, the more rigid, or rather more tense, Pyramids are much more stable than the "flimsier" D'Addarios. The Rick strings are OK and so are the TI's, but they too lacked the tension that made the strings more stable. My style of playing does not entail too much bending and I also have big hands and bending 12's is no problem at all, and therefore bending the Pyramids is no problem either.

The reason I started this thread was not to try to rehabilitate Pyramids. I have no personal interest in doing that. I know the debate in this forum about Pyramid's higher tension being a problem, but surely, Rickenbacker necks are not so weak and fragile as not to be able to withstand a little extra pull. And isn't that what the truss rods are for, to counteract the string tension and bolster the neck? What differences in tension are we talking about here, for example Pyramid compared to TI's . . . Is it possible that the difference is so great and that the Pyramids could actually warp or even crack the neck?

So, Paul, since I know that you are a highly respected luthier and that you have been licensed to make Ric acoustic guitars, I respect you and will certainly follow your advice. I mean, my personal preference is one thing, but If the bottom line is that Pyramids are definitely not good for my guitar and could damage its neck, then there is no way I will use them any more.

Is that, in fact, the case?

Cheers,
Bojan

[stringsncords]

I agree with Paul. I had a set of Pyramids that was given to me; I tried them, and didn't like them at all. The tension was uncomfortably tight. The TI's have a much softer feel, and sound great.

Bob

[1965]

The Pyramid round-core nickel classics I use are actually lower tension than other modern hex-core strings. And if we're talking bass strings, word on the street is that Hofner is sending out their basses with Pyramid flats as stock, so they must not be all bad.

[jingle_jangle]

Thank you for responding Marcus and Paul . . .
What differences in tension are we talking about here, for example Pyramid compared to TI's . . . Is it possible that the difference is so great and that the Pyramids could actually warp or even crack the neck?

If the bottom line is that Pyramids are definitely not good for my guitar and could damage its neck, then there is no way I will use them any more.

Is that, in fact, the case?

I don't recall giving any advice; merely exposing the issues to light. The new Pyramids (or "Tetrahedrons", in RIC parlance) are high in tension, they have been known to distort necks. Rick necks aren't exactly flimsy, but they are more sensitive than a baseball-bat Les Paul neck or an immovable Fender neck. The thin neck is part of the Rick DNA. My own '60 Capri has a neck so thin that it couldn't have two truss rods; this was before the double was introduced, so it has one. I run TIs on it with no issues, and it came to me with D'Addarios and no neck set issues--somewhat rare for early Capris. I love 'em this way.

I personally don't like D' Addarios on Ricks. They feel clangy and have too many overtones for my taste. But I use .011 flatties and nothing else on my main surf guitar, a CIJ Jaguar.

And I use more genuine Rickenbacker strings than anything else on my Rickenbacker guitars. The Rick 12er set is the best utility set of strings for their guitars, at a reasonable price.

[1965]

Are the RIC strings round-core?

[ric340JG]

I think all four - Pyramid, Rickenbacker, Thomastik and d´Addario - make very good strings. I have tried Pyramid strings with my Rickenbackers as well as d´Addarios but I achieved the best results with the stock Rickenbacker strings. This is all, that I can tell you. Another point may be that John Hall seems to dislike Pyramid strings for some reason.

I can understand why John Hall would dislike Pyramid strings, because his interest is to sell Rickenbacker strings, which is absolutely understandable and logical, but at the same time, it may not necessarily be objective.

[1965]

Does anyone know the intimate details of the RIC strings? If they're hex-core, chances are good that they're like any other modern strings out there today. Big hex core, small wrap = not amazing.

[ric340JG]

Paul, I didn't mean to say that you gave me advice, but that I would take your opinion as advice. So, what I am trying to say, perhaps a little cumbersomely (I am not an native English speaker), is that I really like Pyramids and they feel right for me, but if there is a realistic chance that they could damage my guitar, I would not hesitate to take them off.

When you say you use .001 flatties, are you referring to the TI "Jazz Swing" flatwounds?

Cheers
Bojan

[jingle_jangle]

Bojan, that's .011 flatties, as in D'Addario Chrome flatwounds. On my surf guitar, only.

[JakeK]

I've never used Pyramids on any Ric I've owned, but I've used Ric brand roundwounds, Tomastik flats and D'Addario chromes and roundwounds.

I (and John Biscuti can chime in on this paragraph, too) go through phases. One day, I'm loving the brightness of rounds or other days I'm wanting the vintage feel and tone of flats. Right now, I'm going through a roundwound phase, and I'm sure I'll be back to flats soon.

When my '98 1997 was alive (may it RIP and serve life as a 1993/12), I made sure Tomastik's were on it, and it nailed the old vintage tone for me. With some compression, I thought I was in 60's heaven.

It's all about what floats your boat, and I've got some D'Addario rounds in 11 gauge on my 1997SPC at the moment and they're serving me well.

[ric340JG]

OK, in the meantime I have been to the Rickenbacker forum and seen that this company has banned the use of the word "Pyramid" and refers to these strings as "Tetrahedrons," (a geometric term for a three-sided pyramid) and that essentially it has been conducting a campaign against this German string company, at the same time promoting its own strings and TI flatwounds. I must admit that in this light, things look a little different and this could be the real reason why the Pyramid strings have suddenly become the worst (of the worst). Now, I am really wondering whether tension is really the issue here. String tension, that is.

Bojan

[jingle_jangle]

You are seeing evil intent where none exists. RIC's website is owned and run by the company, and you will see no promotion of any company's wares by RIC management. However, if a certain product is responsible for damage to the company's instruments, increases warranty claims and generally has the potential of causing grief to owners of these instruments, then why should the company bless that product? Conversely, if another company's products are not negative in impact RIC will let mention stand and remain neutral.

TIs are closer to vintage Pyramids than contemporary Pyramids are. That's the story in a nutshell.