Alternate wiring for 330/360 guitars

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Joris_Karl
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Alternate wiring for 330/360 guitars

Post by Joris_Karl »

Hi everyone,
I am new to this forum; I live in France and I am the happy owner of a 330 in Jetglo.
For my first post, I wanted to share with you the alternate wiring that I did yesterday on my Rick.

First please note that I have toaster pickups on my 330, and that I use Thomastik flatwound strings.

Here are the problems I was experiencing with the stock one:
- Too much of treble loss when rolling down the volume on the guitar. This became a real problem when I switched from my Fender Princeton 65 RI to an Orange OR15, and I started to control the amp gain with my guitar volume.
- Although I used to use the 5th knob to dose the amount of neck pickup in the middle position, for me it was quite redundant with the other volume knobs.

Here is what I did then:
- 1 volume for each pickup, but with 500k pots and a "treble bleed" on each: now I have plenty of gain control with no treble loss at all, and no change on the pickup sound.
- I kept 1 traditional tone control ("high cut"), but shared between the 2 pickups (for my use, if I need to roll off high frequencies a little, I usually need to do so on both pickups).
- I modified the other tone pot to make it a low cut for both pickups, by wiring a 0,001 capacitor in series. It works well to tighten up the bass frequencies when needed (especially when using distortion or fuzz). It also acts like a kind of gain control, since cutting some bass lowers down the gain level a little.
- I first thought of replacing the 5th knob by a master volume, but I soon realized that I had not really any use for it. Thus I put a mini "ON-ON" toggle switch that gives me 2 options for the bridge pickup only: "normal" or with a 0,005 capacitor in series.
This way, I can cut the bass off the bridge pickup and easily switch to the neck pickup without any bass roll off.
But, more interesting, when I am in the middle position (both pickups), I can use this switch as a blend, because when I engage the capacitor, it tames the bridge pickup a little and thus gives me more of the neck pickup sound.

Sorry for this quite long post, but I attached a simple diagram of this wiring.
Hope this could be of some interest.
Feel free to ask any question if you have one!
Cheers
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4000
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Re: Alternate wiring for 330/360 guitars

Post by 4000 »

Nice, thanks for sharing.

W.r.t. the mini-toggle, I was initially wondering if you swapped neck & bridge in your description, but I understand you indeed want to be able to remove bass from the bridge PU ?

Also wondering if you considered wiring the vol-pots in reverse ? (so that a low vol-setting on one PU doesn't kill the other PU when the PU-switch is in the middle - but you might have chosen not so because of the known drawback of this arrangement.
Joris_Karl
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Re: Alternate wiring for 330/360 guitars

Post by Joris_Karl »

Hey, thanks for your interest!
W.r.t. the mini-toggle, I was initially wondering if you swapped neck & bridge in your description, but I understand you indeed want to be able to remove bass from the bridge PU ?
I had indeed wired the bridge PU to the mini toggle, as I wanted to be able to emulate the vintage wiring with the 0,0047 cap in series.
But, realizing that I had not really the use for it, I decided yesterday to wire it to the neck PU, so that I can cut off some bass easily.
(Note that I aslo tried to wire it as a phase reverse switch, putting the bridge PU out-of-phase with the neck PU when in middle position. Although the sound was really interesting and usable, there was a massive hum when touching the PU, since it is not possible to reverse the hot and ground leads on the toasters. Too bad, because I really liked this mod...)
Also wondering if you considered wiring the vol-pots in reverse ? (so that a low vol-setting on one PU doesn't kill the other PU when the PU-switch is in the middle - but you might have chosen not so because of the known drawback of this arrangement.
On this guitar I wanted to be really able to clean up the sound with the volume, since I use an amp with a lot of gain (I even put a treble bleed on each volume pot).
Anyway, with the bass cut, I am able to kill some of the neck PU sound without touching the volume pot when in middle position, so I find it to be a good compromise.
4000
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Re: Alternate wiring for 330/360 guitars

Post by 4000 »

Hi, again thanks for sharing your thoughts, appreciated.

Can imagine moving the mini-toggle to the neck-PU, since you already have the bass-cut. That's a control I'd like to add as well, so I'm toying around with some ideas to make it all fit in the 5-pot & 1-knob format. Maybe a master-hi-cut like you did, to free up a position. The 5th knob I'd like to keep, although I'm with you it's a bit redundant.

Just curious, did you deliberately use differing pot-values for tone & vol ? (330k/500k) Or were these already like that ?
(Only schematics I've seen are all same value (apart from the 5th pot), but I recall someone saying this might have been a change to all-same-values at a certain point)

Bye
Joris_Karl
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Re: Alternate wiring for 330/360 guitars

Post by Joris_Karl »

Just curious, did you deliberately use differing pot-values for tone & vol ? (330k/500k) Or were these already like that ?
(Only schematics I've seen are all same value (apart from the 5th pot), but I recall someone saying this might have been a change to all-same-values at a certain point)
I had the usual modern 330k combo, but since I now have 3 pots in series for each pickup (volume - high cut - bass cut), I thought I would better switch for a higher value on the volume pots. I still have plenty enough of bass, so I guess it was not a bad idea, even if I don't think 500 against 330 make a huge difference (especially considering the 10% tolerance factor...).
the bass-cut. That's a control I'd like to add as well
I am really happy with this mod. But do not expect the bass cut knob to act as significantly as the traditional hight cut tone knob: it has a far more subtle action, and acts more like a kind of gain control. When you turn the pot down, your sound becomes thinner, rather than treblier.
The 5th knob I'd like to keep
It is not useless, I agree. To be honest I used it quite a bit myself when my wiring was still stock. But now the 0,005 cap I can switch on the neck PU acts almost like turning down the 5th knob when in the middle position because it gives more room to the bridge PU. The main difference is that when I am on the neck PU only, activating the cap does not muddy my sound like the 5th knob turned all the way down did.
Also, be aware that if you do my wiring while keeping the 5th knob, you'll have 4 pots in series on the neck PU. If so, maybe you could go up to 1meg on the neck volume pot?
4000
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Re: Alternate wiring for 330/360 guitars

Post by 4000 »

Joris_Karl wrote:
Just curious, did you deliberately use differing pot-values for tone & vol ? (330k/500k) Or were these already like that ?
(Only schematics I've seen are all same value (apart from the 5th pot), but I recall someone saying this might have been a change to all-same-values at a certain point)
I had the usual modern 330k combo, but since I now have 3 pots in series for each pickup (volume - high cut - bass cut), I thought I would better switch for a higher value on the volume pots. I still have plenty enough of bass, so I guess it was not a bad idea, even if I don't think 500 against 330 make a huge difference (especially considering the 10% tolerance factor...).
I need to order some pots anyway, due to different shaft requirements. Might as well go for at least 500k right away.
the bass-cut. That's a control I'd like to add as well
I am really happy with this mod. But do not expect the bass cut knob to act as significantly as the traditional hight cut tone knob: it has a far more subtle action, and acts more like a kind of gain control. When you turn the pot down, your sound becomes thinner, rather than treblier.
I like the subtle possibilities here. Strange-switches like on a Jaguar are or to less or too much - so I hope/expect spending a pot here does the trick.
The 5th knob I'd like to keep
It is not useless, I agree.
...
Also, be aware that if you do my wiring while keeping the 5th knob, you'll have 4 pots in series on the neck PU. If so, maybe you could go up to 1meg on the neck volume pot?
It'd be sure good to experiment with this. As a contrast, I happened to read some EVHalen-article, you know, keeping wiring short, using only the most essential controls (= about nothing), and then come along brands like Rickenbacker & Gretsch who 'drown' their guitar-models with knobs & things ;-) Can't imagine al those added controls come without a price (soundwise).

Bye
Joris_Karl
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Re: Alternate wiring for 330/360 guitars

Post by Joris_Karl »

I like the subtle possibilities here. Strange-switches like on a Jaguar are or to less or too much - so I hope/expect spending a pot here does the trick.
It will also depends on the value of the cap you choose. I went for a 0,001 but you can change the frequency cut-off by changing this value. Anyway, with the pot, you have the benefit of dialing how much cut-off you want.
It'd be sure good to experiment with this. As a contrast, I happened to read some EVHalen-article, you know, keeping wiring short, using only the most essential controls (= about nothing), and then come along brands like Rickenbacker & Gretsch who 'drown' their guitar-models with knobs & things ;-) Can't imagine al those added controls come without a price (soundwise).
I guess it is essentially a matter of preference, depending on what sound you need / like, and also what you consider being a "good" tone. If you'd wire a tele bridge PU straight to the output jack (no tone, no volume), sure it would be the "purest" tone you could get from the pickup; but I would not consider it a pleasing tone to my ears :? Although if you have an already quite muddy guitar/pickup combo, adding some controls and wiring can muddy things up some more.
All I can say is that, with this new wiring on the 330, the guitar has a very soft sound; still very airy, with a lot of "openness" to it, but not as trebly as the traditional toaster sound. My favorite tone has become the neck PU with the 0,005 cap on, and just a tiny bit of treble roll-off. Coupled with the percussive attack of the Rick (reinforced by the flatwounds), arpeggios can sound almost like a xylophone.

Do not hesitate to give some news if you decide to experiment, it is always great to share ideas!
Cheers
charles
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Re: Alternate wiring for 330/360 guitars

Post by charles »

I had never considered molding the electronics on any guitar, except for the pickups of course; but now I realize how big a difference it can make, and how much fun it can be doing it!
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iiipopes
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Re: Alternate wiring for 330/360 guitars

Post by iiipopes »

On a two-pickup guitar, I install a push-pull on the 5th knob so it retains its function, but can switch the .0047 in-line capacitor in and out at will. See my thread on the factory web site, discussing my wiring mods for both two-pickup and three-pickup guitars:
http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/viewt ... f=2&t=7928
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Dom
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Re: Alternate wiring for 330/360 guitars

Post by Dom »

For those who find the both pickups on or the neck pickup too dark I have a couple tricks.
My favorite mod is to simply wire the neck pickup in reverse...it turns the 5th knob into an EQ.
My other favorite is Switching the neck tone circuit off...it really opens up the tone.

I love interesting wiring mods. The more R&D the better the tones!
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electrofaro
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Re: Alternate wiring for 330/360 guitars

Post by electrofaro »

I came across this butcher-parts 360 which'd been converted to 3 P/Us with rotary switch and volume for the middle P/U:
160367037_220117336533063_8800272124405326721_n.jpg
'67 Fender Coronado II CAB * '17 1963 ES-335 PB * currently rickless
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