360/12c63 or a C series 325?

[(maxwell)]

Yeah, it's time to lock this thread. The OP can start another, more accurate/appropriate thread if he wants, e.g., My Project.

[(ayoungmusiciandude)]

The thread needn't be closed. In fact I'm actually curious about something.

I know the depth of a c58 is 2 inches to the c64s 1 1/2, I'm wondering do the rest of the measurements on the body line up?

I heard from the pickgaurdian they'd need to make a custom one because the c58 was much bigger. For some reason I thought at very least it was the same length on width at least on the face of the body.

Were the guards just carved differently?

[(RC86)]

I have been a long time lurker on these forums, and this thread has inspired me to register!

I am one of those lucky ones who own both a C58 and C64 325. And yes, I do agree that the c64 conversion wouldn't work.

Different woods give different tones, one is alder, one is maple. the c58 doesn't have as high an output to me either. The neck and body are thicker, it has an unlacquered fretboard, no blending knob and of course that terrible vibrato. I made the bigsby switch not long after I got it. Bought a B5 and took it to a shop to get it swapped. Guitar tech was wary as it is technically the wrong bigsby for the guitar (should be a b7 type because of the hollow body) but I told him to persevere and it turned out fine. The c64 is still heavier than the c58 with bigsby! Still have the stock Rickenbacker roller bridge on it though. Tuning pegs on the c58 ain't the greatest either!

If I had to choose only one to keep, I would keep the C64. I can see why Rickenbacker updated the model in the early sixties because it is the superior guitar for me.

Since ageism seems to have been banded about I will state I turned 31 two weeks ago! By all means mod your guitar as it's yours and you call the shots but I agree with a previous poster about turning it into something else that isn't a C58 wannabe!

[(ayoungmusiciandude)]

I am one of those lucky ones who own both a C58 and C64 325.

Thanks for the pointers, I think I was ultimately waiting for for someone who owns both to give me some constructive advice.

I think at this point my reason for wanting this modification now is more or less the almost obscene amount of issues a C58 has and how primitive it truly is. Owning an actual C58 sounds like a hassle and indefinitely would prohibit me from things my C64 can do.

The C64 is kind of growing on me in terms of sound and quality. It definitely has more to offer a user than its predecessor, even untouched by hands that seek to customize.

The neck gets pretty comfortable and fun to play when you start to really "bond" with it through hours of practice. The body depth is nice too, thicker actually than I thought and seeing as the 2 inch body meant the neck would be clumsier I'm a bit wary of going too far. I also can't argue with the fact changing the pickups from higher 7k to a low 5k wouldn't exactly be economic in terms of my diverse style. being hindered in terms of playability as well as the sonic spectrum isn't exactly something I want.

However I'm a sucker for that Sullivan Show style

That gold highlight with the black body has a more aggressive and unique visual appearance to me than your average black and white. The 64 model definitely has that class and showmanship but where all that makes up in terms of updating the playing experience I think I prefer the grit look of a veteran to the band stand which Lennons first had.

I still intend to customize the C64 as I see fit, that's not something I expect to go back on but at this point I'd rather have the love child of a modded 58' and updated 64'. As if Lennon modified his second 325 with leftover parts from his first

Installing a bigsby, bowtie and alternative tuning pegs was to bound happen anyway. As one previously stated here the accent vibrato is only a few short steps above a Kauffman, and I agree. I feel the hardware on both 325 models is limiting (as its purpose to replicate the era) so modification of some kind e.a what Lennon did helps bring some things to the table. I actually can't stand my accent vibrato, I feel it kills any chance for really getting anywhere near the normal amount of sustain and as scandalous as it sounds I grew up on Neil Young so I like to have that option of playing some of his licks or ones that involve the right amount of note depth.

All that leaves me is some of the cosmetic things like burns knobs and the search for gold accents to replace my white ones.

So in the end yes, advice did not fall on deaf ears. All the wise and kind voices who gave heed but remain amiable in what I do to my guitar went through. If some day I decide to get a c58 I will but for now I'll just spruce up a c64 to embody at least the look of Lennons first treasure but leave the body and electronics alone

My only question I have is will the C64 at least appear visually like a C58? Like enough that if you took a forward picture of both of the bodies up close they'd appear almost identical?

[(Ontario_RIC_fan)]

So in the end yes, advice did not fall on deaf ears. All the wise and kind voices who gave heed but remain amiable in what I do to my guitar went through. If some day I decide to get a c58 I will but for now I'll just spruce up a c64 to embody at least the look of Lennons first treasure but leave the body and electronics alone

My only question I have is will the C64 at least appear visually like a C58? Like enough that if you took a forward picture of both of the bodies up close they'd appear almost identical?

Russ, the closest I can think of to a C64/V63 with Capri style Gold plastic on it is the short lived B Series guitars from 1982.

They were basically the same as an early 1980s 320, with toasters and Gold TRC and Pick Guard. The body though was not the deeper Capri style. It also had no blend knob and an R Tail as that was standard on 320s at the time.

Pictures are in the register.
http://www.rickresource.com/register/ga ... =0&month=0

A Facebook friend George, had Mark Arnquist modify his September 1982 JG 320, to a similar spec as to what you are planning to do.
http://www.rickresource.com/register/vi ... p?id=45012

And other have certainly added Gold Plastic and Bigsbys to their 320s (such as the late KNACK Guitarist Doug Fiegler). Before the re-issues started in the mid 1980s, it was the only way to get a Lennonized 325 was to mod a current 320)
http://www.rickresource.com/register/vi ... 6order%3D5

Here is Feigler's modded 350
http://www.rickresource.com/register/vi ... g%2BFieger

http://www.rickresource.com/register/vi ... hp?id=6676

The most extreme conversion I can think of is my friend Bill Dillon, who took a very damaged 1959 335 Capri and modded it into a 350 v59, by grafting the new body onto the original neck and keeping all of the original hardware, tuners, wiring etc. The body he made was one solid piece of maple, so it is much heavier then an original Capri.

This image show it next to my 320 before it was finished so you can see the thickness of it.

I hope you are pleased with the final result.

[(ayoungmusiciandude)]

The 320 conversions are a bit sobering.

The guard and knob layout don't exactly appeal to me. Much closer on the 325v59 spectrum versus the carpi models.

I feel though the 320 is just the closest one that's been done outside of the V or C series in terms of Lennon mods thats not an original. I find very few pictures of customized c64s so I guess well have to see the outcome. I assume a little closer to a C58 though because the guard on the C64 lines closer to the edge of the body as well as I noted it's holes for the knob are in a similar formation to other carpi series models.

Luckily I plan to get a custom made one from The Pickgaurdian. I'm sure the guy there knows what I'm trying to do so I'm sure I'm covered.

5th screw hole and everything



The one your buddy did though is pretty damn impressive. That's a masterpiece!

I can hope mine comes that close!

[(RC86)]

My only question I have is will the C64 at least appear visually like a C58? Like enough that if you took a forward picture of both of the bodies up close they'd appear almost identical?

I'll try and get some photos uploaded tonight for you to see!

[(ayoungmusiciandude)]

I'll try and get some photos uploaded tonight for you to see!

Much thanks friend! Looking forward to seeing what my final result will appear like.

[(tcsmit29)]

I was going to suggest that you consider using a v59 as the basis for your conversion rather than the c64. The v59 already has most of the features you are looking for; bigsby, gold plastic. I think you could buy a nice v59 for about what you paid for the c64. I recently (last 6 month or so) bought a v59 for $2500. I love it. I admit I am a bit biased though. I am a child of the 80's and my first Rickenbacker was a 325v63. I am a fan of the vintage series even though they aren't exact replicas of the original. They are still mighty fine instrument in there own right. I think when you are done with your conversion, what you end up with will be closer to the v59 than the c58. My opinion only.

As for people talking about tone differences, search youtube for a guy named Brian Jepson. He has a video where he plays a c58 and a c64 back to back. They sound mostly the same to me.

[(RC86)]

[(RC86)]

Managed to get round to uploading pics, as you can see the bodies match up size wise, hope this helps you in your modification quest! Also surprised myself with the thickness between the two guitars!

[(ayoungmusiciandude)]

I was going to suggest that you consider using a v59 as the basis for your conversion rather than the c64.

The v59 is definitely a good option and probably more accepted conversion but I never got onboard with the V series. I played a v63 a couple of times with little connection and very very briefly owned a 2011 350v63 which I just didn't care for.

The C series being more exact I think would mean a conversion on a c64 would likely be closer to a c58 in certain aspects a v59 might not. Plus if I'd rather scrimp and save for a little more expensive used c58 than settle for a v59. Just my opinion, more of a capri series guy here.

Managed to get round to uploading pics, as you can see the bodies match up size wise, hope this helps you in your modification quest! Also surprised myself with the thickness between the two guitars!

It's kind of funny but the '64 just looks like a shaved version with more knobs and less color. Kind of lackluster compared to the uniqueness of a 58'

I'm definitely not worried. At this point I think I know just changing the cosmetics a bit but leaving the actual build alone will be enough. I feel it'll appear pretty good, I took the photos and played with them a bit so I have a template I can guess on.

Looking forward to starting the actual conversion around the end of next week! I'll keep everyone updated with pictures.

[(ayoungmusiciandude)]

Though you Rick-nuts might dig this shot.

the guitar's finish captured my campfire really well in a mirrored image. I figured it was artistic and cool.

I got plenty of other angles and an almost hypnotic video of the flames that look like they're licking the body. If you guys want more be sure to ask, I can upload them.

Wanted an interruption of some of the wildness that was once on the thread. I'll go back to the normally scheduled stupid questions, young versus old rants and modification updates soon

*No Ricks were lit on fire in the making of the photo.

[(xpitt)]

Did J. Hendrix play a RIck ? Cool pic ! Young dude, do what you like, be as crazy as you feel you can afford to be, just go ahead, make your own way and try out things against all odds. When you look back you will know....Older people with some knowledge giving some "good advice" aren't always ranters, sometimes they unveil as friends.

[(scoobster28)]

Parkway Music is probably my favorite guitar shop. I drop in anytime i'm in the area. They had the 1993+ last time I was there. Did you consider that as an option?

A great store it is. When I lived in Clifton Park (up until last summer) I was less than a mile away. They had great stock, and the only local store that sold Rickenbackers!