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Re: Humbuckers in a 330 walnut

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:57 am
by wim
In case anyone wonders how good a toaster in high gain disguise looks.

Not bad actually.
There's a slight colour difference with the hb1 though
Ric should offer them like this for their more modern guitars and basses

I'm going to install 1meg pots for the hb1 and 250K pots for the toaster, this might be interesting

Re: Humbuckers in a 330 walnut

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:41 pm
by wim
A small follow up on this.
Before I start soldering all kinds of configurations I ran the hb1 straight into the amp, bypassing all electronics in the guitar.
Couldn't test it loud, but it was clean still a lot clearer than with the 500k pot, which is good news to me as this means higher output too.

Re: Humbuckers in a 330 walnut

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:13 pm
by aceonbass
I feel that 1 meg pots are a bit harsh sounding with an HB1, and prefer 500K pots. The .047 chicklet cap should be swapped for a .022 cap, and Toasters sound good with 500K tone pots and 250K volume pots. The HB1 is also wired out of phase with RIC single coil pickups, so you'll need to reverse the red and blue wires in your pickup lead.

Re: Humbuckers in a 330 walnut

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:56 am
by Jubal81
That is one sharp looking guitar. Wish they'd do a 620 in Walnut.

I went through something similar with my 620. Hit the right formula for me this year. Had a guy I know wind some 60s style alnico Firebird pickups in toaster cases. Just brilliant.

You mentioned using the 5th knob as a 'bass contour' for the neck pickup, which is what I did. Swapped it for a 1MA pot and used a 2n2 cap across the lugs. Works way better than I'd hoped at dialing down woofiness. Never going back.

Re: Humbuckers in a 330 walnut

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:10 pm
by wim
aceonbass wrote:I feel that 1 meg pots are a bit harsh sounding with an HB1, and prefer 500K pots. The .047 chicklet cap should be swapped for a .022 cap, and Toasters sound good with 500K tone pots and 250K volume pots. The HB1 is also wired out of phase with RIC single coil pickups, so you'll need to reverse the red and blue wires in your pickup lead.


I lead the pickup straight into the amp again, today, only louder now and also on the drive channel.
The difference with the 500K pot is HUGE. The 500K pot drains a lot of the mid-high tone.
I don't find it harsh, but that could be the amp you use the pickup with.
The tone is quite like the vintage mini humbuckers I like so much. slightly less mid-range but I can boost this on the amp to get a fatter sound.
I'm happy with this sound, it translates the acoustic richness that the guitar has quite well.
So I think this will become the definitive setup;

Neck: toaster coil in hi gain cover, stock volume pot
Bridge: 3 or 4 way Rotary switch: off / single coil / humbucking mode, maybe one more function to simulate the use of a 500K volume pot
The tone circuit acting as master with a bass cut (bass tone) and a treble cut (treble tone)
the fifth knob standard function.

Re: Humbuckers in a 330 walnut

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:14 pm
by wim
Jubal81 wrote:That is one sharp looking guitar. Wish they'd do a 620 in Walnut.

I went through something similar with my 620. Hit the right formula for me this year. Had a guy I know wind some 60s style alnico Firebird pickups in toaster cases. Just brilliant.

You mentioned using the 5th knob as a 'bass contour' for the neck pickup, which is what I did. Swapped it for a 1MA pot and used a 2n2 cap across the lugs. Works way better than I'd hoped at dialing down woofiness. Never going back.


A 650 dakota comes close to a 620 in walnut, I can imagine the sound, the SD vint. mini pups are in fact Firebird replica pups. They are super in an all maple guitar.
Does your fifth knob act as a master tone or on the neck pup only?

Re: Humbuckers in a 330 walnut

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:26 pm
by jdogric12
wim wrote:
Jubal81 wrote:That is one sharp looking guitar. Wish they'd do a 620 in Walnut.

I went through something similar with my 620. Hit the right formula for me this year. Had a guy I know wind some 60s style alnico Firebird pickups in toaster cases. Just brilliant.

You mentioned using the 5th knob as a 'bass contour' for the neck pickup, which is what I did. Swapped it for a 1MA pot and used a 2n2 cap across the lugs. Works way better than I'd hoped at dialing down woofiness. Never going back.


A 650 dakota comes close to a 620 in walnut, I can imagine the sound, the SD vint. mini pups are in fact Firebird replica pups. They are super in an all maple guitar.
Does your fifth knob act as a master tone or on the neck pup only?



In look, the 650D and a theoretical 620W would be similar, but you'd still have these differences:
HB's vs HG's
wide neck vs narrow
rosewood fretboard vs maple
inlays
black TRC vs white
chrome pickguard vs white plastic
5 knobs vs 4
very different bridge/tailpiece
mono vs stereo
Funny how different two guitars in the same "model family" (6xx) are!

Re: Humbuckers in a 330 walnut

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:15 pm
by Jubal81
wim wrote:
Jubal81 wrote:That is one sharp looking guitar. Wish they'd do a 620 in Walnut.

I went through something similar with my 620. Hit the right formula for me this year. Had a guy I know wind some 60s style alnico Firebird pickups in toaster cases. Just brilliant.

You mentioned using the 5th knob as a 'bass contour' for the neck pickup, which is what I did. Swapped it for a 1MA pot and used a 2n2 cap across the lugs. Works way better than I'd hoped at dialing down woofiness. Never going back.


A 650 dakota comes close to a 620 in walnut, I can imagine the sound, the SD vint. mini pups are in fact Firebird replica pups. They are super in an all maple guitar.
Does your fifth knob act as a master tone or on the neck pup only?


Yes, neck pickup only. The only physical change in wiring is adding the cap across the lugs on the 5th knob. It still increases the series resistance in line with the neck pickup, but the 2n2 cap acts as a bypass route for the higher frequencies, so the overall result is turning the knob cuts bass frequencies rather than lowering the neck PU volume.

Re: Humbuckers in a 330 walnut

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:49 pm
by wim
Jubal81 wrote:
wim wrote:
Jubal81 wrote:That is one sharp looking guitar. Wish they'd do a 620 in Walnut.

I went through something similar with my 620. Hit the right formula for me this year. Had a guy I know wind some 60s style alnico Firebird pickups in toaster cases. Just brilliant.

You mentioned using the 5th knob as a 'bass contour' for the neck pickup, which is what I did. Swapped it for a 1MA pot and used a 2n2 cap across the lugs. Works way better than I'd hoped at dialing down woofiness. Never going back.


A 650 dakota comes close to a 620 in walnut, I can imagine the sound, the SD vint. mini pups are in fact Firebird replica pups. They are super in an all maple guitar.
Does your fifth knob act as a master tone or on the neck pup only?


Yes, neck pickup only. The only physical change in wiring is adding the cap across the lugs on the 5th knob. It still increases the series resistance in line with the neck pickup, but the 2n2 cap acts as a bypass route for the higher frequencies, so the overall result is turning the knob cuts bass frequencies rather than lowering the neck PU volume.

I like that idea.
I'll keep the stock pots for the toaster with this bass cut mod .
For the humbucker it'll be a rotary switch and a no load tone pot, so I can run it straight into the amp.
I never use the volume other than on/ off anyway.

Re: Humbuckers in a 330 walnut

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:23 pm
by wim
Being a bit crazy, I bought a second 330 walnut.
This guitar is COMPLETELY different from my first one, though it is manufactured the same.
This one is top notch classic Rickenbacker, bright with ringing sustain.
The first one is more midrange focused and has a richer sound texture. That one is like the child of a ric 330 and a Gibson 335.
Even if you tap the body with your fingernail it is clearly a different sound.
Very weird.
The wood from the one I had first has a wild pattern to it, even the fretboard is like that.
The wood from the newest one has a very straight grain, almost even pattern.

Could this explain the difference?

Re: Humbuckers in a 330 walnut

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:04 pm
by jps
wim wrote:Being a bit crazy, I bought a second 330 walnut.
This guitar is COMPLETELY different from my first one, though it is manufactured the same.
This one is top notch classic Rickenbacker, bright with ringing sustain.
The first one is more midrange focused and has a richer sound texture. That one is like the child of a ric 330 and a Gibson 335.
Even if you tap the body with your fingernail it is clearly a different sound.
Very weird.
The wood from the one I had first has a wild pattern to it, even the fretboard is like that.
The wood from the newest one has a very straight grain, almost even pattern.

Could this explain the difference?

Buy a few more, with some having wild figuring and others with nice, straight grain and let us know how the testing goes. :wink:

Re: Humbuckers in a 330 walnut

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:10 pm
by wim
jps wrote:
wim wrote:Being a bit crazy, I bought a second 330 walnut.
This guitar is COMPLETELY different from my first one, though it is manufactured the same.
This one is top notch classic Rickenbacker, bright with ringing sustain.
The first one is more midrange focused and has a richer sound texture. That one is like the child of a ric 330 and a Gibson 335.
Even if you tap the body with your fingernail it is clearly a different sound.
Very weird.
The wood from the one I had first has a wild pattern to it, even the fretboard is like that.
The wood from the newest one has a very straight grain, almost even pattern.

Could this explain the difference?

Buy a few more, with some having wild figuring and others with nice, straight grain and let us know how the testing goes. :wink:

Did I say both are 2014?

Re: Humbuckers in a 330 walnut

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:31 pm
by iiipopes
If the pickups don't have enough bite with Dane's wiring harness, you might try a slightly thicker foam, or add another ring made out of pickguard material between the body and the foam ring to raise the pickup a little bit. The bite and volume of a pickup is inverse to the square of the distance from the strings to the pickup, not linear. Just a little bit closer might make all the difference in the world.