Push pull pots for 650c

[BrTex]

Hi - my first post - thanks everyone for the weath of info on this forum.

Anyway I'd like to coil split the pickups on my 650c, and after much thought I decided I'd like to use push pull pots for this rather than the spin-a-split wiring. first of all, are these the right pots?: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=401390. I've read here that only Ric bass push-pulls will fit the 650, but these are listed as 330k as opposed to 500k like the stock 650 pots. I want to retain my original humbucker sound - will the difference alter that noticably? I've also read on this forum ( viewtopic.php?f=2&t=401390 ) that these "330k" pots are really 500k? (same as what I have). Can anyone else verify this?

Thanks in advance

[aceonbass]

Paul.....The push-pull pot RIC sells cannot be used for coil splitting. I carry the pots that will do this, but they require 1" of cavity clearance. I also build custom harnesses for 650's that do this using 500k pots and .022uF that brighten up the tone and add clarity over the stock components. PM me for details if interested.

[jdogric12]

I've got a Dane harness in my 650A and love it. it's night and day over the stock sound, which I've always hated. I am mainly using the guitar in the studio, so a pair of grommets holding the control plate up suffices for now, but eventually I reckon I'll dremel the cavity a little to fit them in properly.

[BrTex]

So these rick push pull pots won't work for coil splitting? (here's the link to the pot that I meant to post: https://www.richtonemusic.co.uk/product ... UAQAvD_BwE )

I thought they would work based on a post from this thread: http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/viewt ... f=2&t=9376 ; down the page the poster describes the coil split and humbucking middle position mod and then writes: "Be aware that most push-pulls will not fit in the shallow control cavity of the 650! The one RIC sells for the 4003 bass does though." It seems that the author believes they work for splitting.

I really just want the sound the guitar already has, but with an added, more traditionally Ric single coil sound option for rhythm playing. I'd rather rather not make permanent modifications such as routing. I might have to settle for the spin-a-split idea, though I'd prefer full tone control in single coil mode.

[BrTex]

Dane - I just saw another thread that talks about using Ric push/pulls for coil splitting HB-1s ( http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/viewt ... f=2&t=8096 ). Is there a particular reason for your thinking that this wouildn't work?

[aceonbass]

Paul.....The push-pull pots used when those threads were new were the same style I use, and would work, but they are not the same as what RIC uses now, which will only work for the limited purpose they are being used in. Also, the Alpha pot RIC previously used had a spring mechanism that isn't as good as the Bourns pot with the internal nylon cam that I use.

[BrTex]

Paul.....The push-pull pots used when those threads were new were the same style I use, and would work, but they are not the same as what RIC uses now, which will only work for the limited purpose they are being used in. Also, the Alpha pot RIC previously used had a spring mechanism that isn't as good as the Bourns pot with the internal nylon cam that I use.

Thanks for the update on Ric push/pulls, I suspected they might have changed them. Good info to keep people from going out and buying the wrong thing. So I guess this means there are no push/pulls currently availble for this application that don't require routing for clearance? Also are there any sound files of a 650 with your harness installed?

[aceonbass]

There are no p-p pots available that are shorter tham 1". Measure your cavity and see what it actually is. Any good guitar tech, or owner of a plunge router should be able to handle the job. You'll need to remove the pickups and bridge to clear the way. Since RIC solid bodies are 1 1/4" thick, there is will be plenty of wood left once routed. The extra clarity using humbucker appropriate components, and ability to switch to a tone I'm told is similar to Toasters will be worth the harness swap.

[beasto]

I just installed a Dane harness w/ push-pulls in my '74 480. I took it to my luthier to have it dremeled out. He said he could do it, but cautioned that the wood would be "paper thin" in some areas. I had major hesitations to proceed. Dane advised me to not grind down the pots, but I figured I'd rather try and have to replace them than risk ruining a lovely guitar. The result was a big success, and the guitar sounds amazing. I'm about to do this to my '97 620 and I'm hoping since it is a little more modern there is at least 1" of space or enough wood to safely remove. Dane's work is amazing and I highly recommend having him make you one.

[aceonbass]

I'm glad you were able to fit everything in there Adam! I'm thinking that most RIC solid body guitars and basses are 1 1/4" thick, leaving 1/4" of thickness in the cavity back. How thick was yours?

[bdawson7]

Hi Paul,

I am starting the same mod you're doing, on my own 650E (650S? 650F? ....its the one with vermillion wood wings & gold hardware from 1999).

I took it to a world-class luthier around here, and because of the hard & brittle nature of the wood he strongly recommended to avoid thinning the back wall of the cavity. Instead, he cut a RIC pickup grommet in half, like you would a bagel, and put one half around each of the two screws of the metal pickguard. This gave about 2mm clearance the pots needed, and you can hardly tell it happened. And its all RIC, and reversible.

He thought that any thinner on the back of the wood and you'd need to varnish, seal, or clearcoat the inside of the cavity to mitigate any potential cracking or splitting of the thin, brittle wood over the seasons in future years.

My exact measurements are:
RIC 650E:
Body depth: 30 mm
Cavity depth: 24 mm
Push pull needs: 26 mm

That would leave only 4 mm thickness if routed to the minimum depth needed for the pots.

I went for the CTS Push-pulls 500k to get the Jimmy Page Les Paul mod. Coil taps, phase, and series/parallel options!
(The little "teeth" on the mounting surface of the pot were bent down to get more clearance, and there is no washer or nut there either)

[jdogric12]

my own 650E (650S? 650F? ....its the one with vermillion wood wings from 1999).

With a gloss finish, that's an F. Satin finish would be an S with gold, D with chrome. E's were the early gloss ones, before RIC was aware there was already an existing "Excalibur" trademark or something.

He thought that any thinner on the back of the wood and you'd need to varnish, seal, or clearcoat the inside of the cavity to mitigate any potential cracking or splitting of the thin, brittle wood over the seasons in future years.

I wonder if a little copper plate would be good for this, and have added shielding benefits?

[bdawson7]

my own 650E (650S? 650F? ....its the one with vermillion wood wings from 1999).

With a gloss finish, that's an F. Satin finish would be an S with gold, D with chrome. E's were the early gloss ones, before RIC was aware there was already an existing "Excalibur" trademark or something.

He thought that any thinner on the back of the wood and you'd need to varnish, seal, or clearcoat the inside of the cavity to mitigate any potential cracking or splitting of the thin, brittle wood over the seasons in future years.

I wonder if a little copper plate would be good for this, and have added shielding benefits?

Ah, then its a 650F. I think the vermillion was only ever an F, since it was sealed and clear-coated. There was walnut with gold or chrome hardware, but that was oil finish, yes?
Also, I like the newer versions of the 650 because all the corners were shaped so much better, like a strat. The earlier versions are all squared off, like a Fred Flintstone guitar, but with class.


Does the metal pickguard contribute to shielding? Should it be connected to or isolated from the circuit?

[aceonbass]

I would imagine that big steel guard would provide some shielding. No need to isolate it from the wiring. I didn't on my custom 4004Cii.