Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I just got my new 330-12 delivered today and it's a winner, and will be even better once those stiff-as-hell Pyramids are gone and it's set up properly. Of course, it has the stock Hi Gains on there. I have Toasters on my other 300-12, but am curious to know how you 12 string players like your Hi Gains, and what I should expect in terms of tone vs. the Toasters.

The sound I want is strictly reminiscent of the 60's, so I have doubts about the Hi Gains.

drumbob wrote:The sound I want is strictly reminiscent of the 60's, so I have doubts about the Hi Gains.

I believe you are on the right track for the '60s tone, put toasters in the guitar. Hi-gains are meatier/fuller sounding.

Hi-gains are great! Why would you want two guitars that are exactly the same?

What jdog says.
I never buy two of the same guitars, I find that pointless if only the colour is different

I'm going to spend some time playing this 330-12 through my rig with the Hi Gains to see how I feel before changing the pickups, but first, it needs a string change and setup. I hate the Pyramid strings on there-I now understand who so many players think they're stiff and rough on the fingers-and the neck and action needs to be tweaked. My guitar tech is serving on jury duty all week, so I can't get it to him until next week.

I don't see it as having two of the same guitar. The new one is essentially a backup for my AutumnGlo 330-12. I'll rotate them on gigs as I see fit. I'm a 60's Rick guy at heart; Byrds, Beatles, early Who, etc, but I'll give the Hi Gains a fair shake. I also like the look of the Toasters. It's a classic Rickenbacker look.

drumbob wrote:I am curious to know how you 12 string players like your Hi Gains, and what I should expect in terms of tone vs. the Toasters.

Hi Gains v Toasters? When I got my Ric 12 nearly thirty years ago I had never heard of Toasters or High Gains. All I knew was I got my dream guitar and...it sounded like The Beatles! And to everybody else who heard that guitar...it sounded like The Beatles!

I really do think Toasters v High Gains is cork sniffing snobbery. I have a Ric with Toasters...sounds like my Ric with High Gains; in other words...they both sound like The Beatles! If you feel the High Gains are not precisely what you think they should be, tweak the amp.

Yep, Tom's right.

If you want the 60's sound, there are things more important than toaster vs hi gain: compression, 21 vs24 frets, amp, playing style, etc.

jdogric12 wrote:Yep, Tom's right.
If you want the 60's sound, there are things more important than toaster vs hi gain: compression, 21 vs24 frets, amp, playing style, etc.

J-Dog, I remember several years back you posted a real interesting audio compilation, where you A-B'd a bunch of Ric Twelvers, to demonstrate tonality differences of Toasters vrs High Gains and 370 vrs 360 models and 24 Frets vrs 21 frets and ran them all through the same setting on a JangleBox, and the same amp settings. You played the same Bach melody, on each Rickenbacker, if I recall.

It was a really good audio comparison you created, so everyone could hear the slight tonality differences. The conclusion I made was that each of us needs to have several different Rickenbackers to enjoy all these rich tonal differences.

8mileshigher wrote:

jdogric12 wrote:Yep, Tom's right.
If you want the 60's sound, there are things more important than toaster vs hi gain: compression, 21 vs24 frets, amp, playing style, etc.

J-Dog, I remember several years back you posted a real interesting audio compilation, where you A-B'd a bunch of Ric Twelvers, to demonstrate tonality differences of Toasters vrs High Gains and 370 vrs 360 models and 24 Frets vrs 21 frets and ran them all through the same setting on a JangleBox, and the same amp settings. You played the same Bach melody, on each Rickenbacker, if I recall.

It was a really good audio comparison you created, so everyone could hear the slight tonality differences. The conclusion I made was that each of us needs to have several different Rickenbackers to enjoy all these rich tonal differences.

Ha - yes!!! I'm so pleased you remember that, I had almost forgotten!

Compared to each other in a vacuum, sure, one can hear the differences. But if you walk in a bar and hear a band playing Mr. Tambourine Man with a Rick 12, even the best of us would have to really focus with our ears for a minute to tell amongst all the other clatter and noise whether it was 21 vs 24, toasters vs hi-gains, etc etc.

jdogric12 wrote:

8mileshigher wrote:

jdogric12 wrote:….Compared to each other in a vacuum, sure, one can hear the differences. But if you walk in a bar.... even the best of us would have to really focus with our ears whether it was toasters vs hi-gains

That is so true. Methinks we obsess over things not worthy of obsessing over.

When I received my 325 with Toasters, ohh, was I excited. TOASTERS! These are the marvels that every Rickenbacker player gushes over. Well, I started to play my new Toastered Rickenbacker guitar...and it sounded like my Hi-Gain Rickenbacker guitar. I sensed a lower output from the Toasters, but the clarity and tone and jangle was the same in both.

I don't want to spoil the party here, but toaster and hi gain pickups, to my ears, sound quite different.

jdogric12 wrote: Ha - yes!!! I'm so pleased you remember that, I had almost forgotten! Compared to each other in a vacuum, sure, one can hear the differences. But if you walk in a bar and hear a band playing Mr. Tambourine Man with a Rick 12, even the best of us would have to really focus with our ears for a minute to tell amongst all the other clatter and noise whether it was 21 vs 24, toasters vs hi-gains, etc etc.

Tommy wrote: That is so true. Methinks we obsess over things not worthy of obsessing over. Well, I started to play my new Toasterized Rickenbacker guitar...and it sounded like my Hi-Gain Rickenbacker guitar. I sensed a lower output from the Toasters, but the clarity and tone and jangle was the same in both.

wim wrote:I don't want to spoil the party here, but toaster and hi gain pickups, to my ears, sound quite different.

Well, I find some consensus amongst the comments of ALL of the above ! J-Dog is correct that in a performance situation with drums and bass and keys and Bar background noise, etc. that most of us can not likely tell much difference in pickups, necks, etc. compared to the vacuum of a studio recording. Tommy will also find many people agree with his assessment about many similarities and yes, the output is less with Toasters then with High Gains and one needs to turn the amp up, to get equal decibels going out when you plug the Toasterized guitar in. And I also agree with wim that there are differences between Toasters and High Gains. I prefer Toasters on Ric 12ers and I like High Gains on my Ric SIxers. And because Toasters look so cool, I have also put Toaster covers on some of my High Gain equipped Sixers.

wim wrote:I don't want to spoil the party here, but toaster and hi gain pickups, to my ears, sound quite different.

Well, then I'm glad I don't have your ears.
See, I'm happy with what I have. Toasters on one Ric, High Gains on another Ric...to me they just both simply sound like Rics.

To be honest, (and this might sound very strange on a guitar forum) pickups aren't a big deal to me. P-90s, Toasters, Gibson 498 humbuckers...no difference to me. I simply tweak my amp to get a sound that I like. To me the tone is all in the amp. I know I am probably wrong with that, but my amp has a lot of knobs...I can twist them to make my guitar sound like a trumpet. Lots of knobs on my amp...that's where the tone lies.

Tommy wrote:

wim wrote:I don't want to spoil the party here, but toaster and hi gain pickups, to my ears, sound quite different.

Well, then I'm glad I don't have your ears.
See, I'm happy with what I have. Toasters on one Ric, High Gains on another Ric...to me they just both simply sound like Rics.

To be honest, (and this might sound very strange on a guitar forum) pickups aren't a big deal to me. P-90s, Toasters, Gibson 498 humbuckers...no difference to me. I simply tweak my amp to get a sound that I like. To me the tone is all in the amp. I know I am probably wrong with that, but my amp has a lot of knobs...I can twist them to make my guitar sound like a trumpet. Lots of knobs on my amp...that's where the tone lies.

To me, the tone is the combination of my style and the guitar (with all its different parameters) I'm playing.
The amp is there to be heard at all.
Maybe I'm old fashioned, I never use any effects either.
But the result is I can get my tone on an acoustic too.

It's well known , after all , tone comes from your underpants !