1986 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

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1986 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

Postby (akpasta) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:06 pm

Hey folks,

I've got a line on a 1986 360/12 online (meaning I can't play it). It's got the two things I want , toaster pickups and a 12 saddle bridge and still under $2k. But the 12 saddle bridge is unlike anything I've seen. It looks custom, or maybe just old. Both things for better or worse. I was hoping to get some insight on it. The seller was no help he just said "I bought it this way" and couldn't provide any feedback on it besides "everything works great"

See photos.

Any ideas?
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Last edited by akpasta on Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1980s 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

Postby (scotty) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:16 pm

I've not seen that before?
What year is it?
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Re: 1986 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

Postby (akpasta) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:21 pm

Updated. Seller says 1986
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Re: 1986 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

Postby (scotty) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:45 pm

Not original,Looks decent though!
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Re: 1986 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

Postby (37012player) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:59 pm

A well known former rickenbacker employee has in the past stated that some prototype 12 saddle bridges were made by modifying standard bridge chassis dating back to the 1970's. I have seen an even cruder version once before that looked similar to the one in the pics you have posted. Perhaps they picked up the idea again in the mid 80's. It could be a factory made prototype that was sold....not the first time they would have done that, or a luthier working on his/her own.

From memory the first "standard" 12 saddle bridges appeared on the Roger McGuinn limited edition guitars in 1988. There after they could be bought from Ric and retrofitted. Your pics is not one of these.

Si..
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Re: 1986 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

Postby (kennyhowes) » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:52 am

One of those ones Ed Roman was selling?
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Re: 1986 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

Postby (akpasta) » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:09 am

Well I bought the damn thing. Hahaha. So I can give you guys a report in a couple weeks.

Maybe you Rick experts could fill me in on whether the toaster pickups are original as well. Did 360/12s from the mid 80s come with toasters or high gain? I feel like I've seen both.

The seller says he bought it from a "professional musician" years ago haha. Whatever that means. If the toasters are legit and the 12 saddle bridge is good I got a pretty good deal.
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Re: 1986 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

Postby (jps) » Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:11 am

My guess is those toasters are the hot wound ones. They probably sound better on a six string more so than a 12 string, depending on where your tonal preferences lay on the continuum between Beatles and more modern tone.

Looking at the locations of the saddles on the bridge you may need/want to relocate the bridge mounting plate closer to the tailpiece from where it is now to allow for greater adjustment range for intonation, overall.
Last edited by jps on Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 1986 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

Postby (akpasta) » Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:29 am

Aw man now you're really bumming me out!

How do you suppose these "80s" toasters compare to the ones you buy now? I had a rick with modern toasters and liked them just fine. Obviously I want 60s Rick jingle jangle. But I'll settle for Primal Scream sonic sister love 12 string tone too!.

An improperly intimated bridge tho I cannot abide.


I guess we'll see.
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Re: 1986 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

Postby (jps) » Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:10 am

akpasta wrote:Aw man now you're really bumming me out!

How do you suppose these "80s" toasters compare to the ones you buy now? I had a rick with modern toasters and liked them just fine. Obviously I want 60s Rick jingle jangle. But I'll settle for Primal Scream sonic sister love 12 string tone too!.

You really need to try them and find how you like the tone of them, lost of folks love the hot toasters. The current, newer, modern toasters are the scatterwound ones that average 7.4KΩ; they will give you the jangle.
akpasta wrote:An improperly intimated [sic] bridge tho I cannot abide..
It is real easy to relocate the bridge plate. It's only two screws that you have to drill new holes for, and the plate will hide the old screw holes, so no big deal, really.
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Re: 1986 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

Postby (Very Occasionally) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:09 am

akpasta wrote:Hey folks,

I've got a line on a 1986 360/12 online (meaning I can't play it). It's got the two things I want , toaster pickups and a 12 saddle bridge and still under $2k. But the 12 saddle bridge is unlike anything I've seen. It looks custom, or maybe just old. Both things for better or worse. I was hoping to get some insight on it. The seller was no help he just said "I bought it this way" and couldn't provide any feedback on it besides "everything works great"

See photos.

Any ideas?


Possibly an older Winfield 12 saddle bridge...? Looks like his work: slot-head screws with big nuts.
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Re: 1986 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

Postby (Very Occasionally) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:18 am

37012player wrote:A well known former rickenbacker employee has in the past stated that some prototype 12 saddle bridges were made by modifying standard bridge chassis dating back to the 1970's. I have seen an even cruder version once before that looked similar to the one in the pics you have posted. Perhaps they picked up the idea again in the mid 80's. It could be a factory made prototype that was sold....not the first time they would have done that, or a luthier working on his/her own.

From memory the first "standard" 12 saddle bridges appeared on the Roger McGuinn limited edition guitars in 1988. There after they could be bought from Ric and retrofitted. Your pics is not one of these.

Si..


This is the 12 saddle bridge on my '89 370/12RM: exactly the same as the current 12 saddle bridge.
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Re: 1986 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

Postby (akpasta) » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:46 pm

Well I bought the guitar!

It's currently strung up with some very old roundwound set with an unwound 3rd so the G doesn't stay in tune for **** (goes sharp when fretted). Gauge also feels kind of light but Ricks always felt that way to me. But the intonation seems perfect on every string, I don't think it needs any adjustment at all. Whatever kind of bridge it is, it's very nice. Feels totally solid and the saddles look great.

As far as the pickups it's kind of hard to tell. There's a little bit of a 'banjo'-ey sound at times, kind of thin. I understand it's hard to tell what kind of toaster pickups you've got without measuring the resistance or something right?

I'll have a better idea of it when I get some new strings on it.

As far as the playability, action, intonation are great. It plays way better than I remember my old 360/12 playing. Part of that could be I'm a much better 12 string guitar player now, who knows but I wasn't really finding the neck to be too skinny or difficult to handle as I did before.

It looks super cool too. I actually quite prefer it to jetglo.

I have some ernie ball roller-wound strings at home I might try first just to see how they sound. They're pretty darn flat, but I think ultimately I want to try the Pick of The Ricks Custom Thomastik Flats. I also think a flatter wound string will help the strings feel less loose as the flatwounds tend to have a certain tension that rounds don't, for some reason.
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Re: 1986 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

Postby (Very Occasionally) » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:15 pm

akpasta wrote:Well I bought the guitar!

It's currently strung up with some very old roundwound set with an unwound 3rd so the G doesn't stay in tune for **** (goes sharp when fretted). Gauge also feels kind of light but Ricks always felt that way to me. But the intonation seems perfect on every string, I don't think it needs any adjustment at all. Whatever kind of bridge it is, it's very nice. Feels totally solid and the saddles look great.

As far as the pickups it's kind of hard to tell. There's a little bit of a 'banjo'-ey sound at times, kind of thin. I understand it's hard to tell what kind of toaster pickups you've got without measuring the resistance or something right?

I'll have a better idea of it when I get some new strings on it.

As far as the playability, action, intonation are great. It plays way better than I remember my old 360/12 playing. Part of that could be I'm a much better 12 string guitar player now, who knows but I wasn't really finding the neck to be too skinny or difficult to handle as I did before.

It looks super cool too. I actually quite prefer it to jetglo.

I have some ernie ball roller-wound strings at home I might try first just to see how they sound. They're pretty darn flat, but I think ultimately I want to try the Pick of The Ricks Custom Thomastik Flats. I also think a flatter wound string will help the strings feel less loose as the flatwounds tend to have a certain tension that rounds don't, for some reason.


Congrats on the cool score!

I really don't understand the concept of flatwound or rollerwound strings on a 360/12 and would very much like to hear thoughts on this. What is the advantage?

I'm currently using the Ernie Ball set 2230 which are 8's. The action is wonderful on both my '92 360/12 and '89 370/12RM. The intonation is correct with the 12-saddle bridge and both these guitars stay in tune very well. The only caveat: I always solder the ball ends of .009 and .008 strings. I've had too many instances of the wrap coming undone on those gauges.

Also less overall tension on the neck so less likely to cause problems from excessive tension.
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Re: 1986 360/12 Unusual 12-saddle Bridge

Postby (akpasta) » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:00 pm

Rollerwound are like half way between flat and round. I want to try flats but rollers are close to flat but 1/4 of the price as well.

.08 waaaaay too loose for me. I gotta go with 10s all the way.
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