Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Tube and solidstate amplifiers made by Rickenbacker

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Re: Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Postby (Aclempoppi) » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:57 pm

Folkie, that seems like a neat set-up. I never tried a compression pedal(just not a pedal guy), but maybe it's time!!! I've read good things about the Jangle Box on this forum. Art
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Re: Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Postby (Folkie) » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:59 pm

Aclempoppi wrote:Folkie, that seems like a neat set-up. I never tried a compression pedal(just not a pedal guy), but maybe it's time!!! I've read good things about the Jangle Box on this forum. Art


Art,

If you're considering purchasing a JangleBox compressor then you're buying at a perfect time: Their JB2 Limited Edition Byrds pedal will be available at an unbeatable sale price for about another week. You'll have to e-mail the company's owner, Steve Lasko (info@janglebox.com), to order one. I'm not much of a pedal guy either, but, as so many here have attested, the JangleBox compressors really work wonders with Rickenbacker 12-strings (and with many other guitars as well). If you're curious, you might check out their website for sound clips.

As for the Fender Princeton Chorus amps, they're no longer made, but they're easy to find used, and a second hand one will cost you only a little more than a JangleBox.:lol: It's a lightweight, no frills, solid state amp that does a good job of emulating Roger McGuinn's Roland Jazz Chorus. 8)

Robert
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Re: Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Postby (Aclempoppi) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:35 am

Thanks Robert ! The Jangle Box seems to be the choice of you Ricky folks. So I respect your collective sonic preferences. Been a tube amp tech for some 30 years and player for many years, but the last 30 yrs in the Blues Chicago area. I'm new to the 360 12 string experience. Since I grew up in Southern California in the sixties, I've always lusted after the Jim(Roger) McGuinn sound and vibe. So now this geezer is just trying to tap into that sound. Actually, in a couple of the bands that I play with, the Ricky is being going to be used. Think the band members will go along with it. OK, I'll check it out with the old Fenders!!! Art
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Re: Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Postby (Folkie) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:49 pm

Art,

Yes, you'll find many endorsements for the JangleBox pedals here. IMHO, they are the best compressors on the market.

As a tube amp tech, you might turn your nose up at an old solid state amp like the Princeton Chorus, but it captures lots of really disparate tones, ranging from jazz, to blues, to folk-rock, to grunge. You might find a used one in good condition for around $175.00.

If you're new to Rics, then this forum is the perfect place for you. Please keep us posted on how the 360/12 fares with your bands.

Robert
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Re: Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Postby (Aclempoppi) » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:07 am

Robert, There's no way I'd give short shrift to anyone's rig!!! Whatever works and sounds good to any musician, is cool with me. Witness BB King and the Lab Series(solid state) amp, Johnny Winters and the Musicman(solid state preamp) amp, and I believe Otis Rush sometimes used a Baldwin(solid state) amp. Actually, sometimes I run the 360 through a Genz-Benz Shendandoah 85. It's all good!!!! BTW How is that amp holding up for you? Art
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Re: Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Postby (Folkie) » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:27 am

Aclempoppi wrote:Robert, There's no way I'd give short shrift to anyone's rig!!! Whatever works and sounds good to any musician, is cool with me. Witness BB King and the Lab Series(solid state) amp, Johnny Winters and the Musicman(solid state preamp) amp, and I believe Otis Rush sometimes used a Baldwin(solid state) amp. Actually, sometimes I run the 360 through a Genz-Benz Shendandoah 85. It's all good!!!! BTW How is that amp holding up for you? Art


Art,

Glad to hear that you're not a tube amp snob. :lol: You sure do know the rigs of famous blues players, though. I purchased my Princeton Chorus in 1997, and it still works and sounds like new. The only problem I've ever had with it was some cabinet resonance (vibration) when I hit low notes. I took it to a tech and he opened up the cab and lined it with cellophane. Problem solved. I'm still really amazed by the versatility of the amp: it can do virtually anything. For great blues tones I run my Strat directly into the amp's dirty channel or through my Boss GT-3. For jazz, I run my Guild X-170 directly into the amp with the reverb turned all the way down. And for folk-rock I run my Ric 12's through a JangleBox JB2 and then directly into the amp.

I really think the Princeton Chorus would be right for you. As a blues player, you can get a very wide tonal palette. With your new Ric 360/12 you can dial in some serious jangle. And, as I said, the amp is great for mellow jazz tones, too. And the used ones will cost you less than a stomp box. 8)

I hope you're getting some great sounds from the 360/12. How long have you been in your band(s), and are you accustomed to playing mostly blues?

Robert
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Re: Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Postby (Aclempoppi) » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:42 pm

Robert, my band saga began in 1964(14 yrs old), a long boring story! Acoustic Blues bands, '75-'89: electric "Salty Dawg Blues Band" '89-'05. More recently, two gospel groups(acoustic Bluegrass and an electric Bluesy-Rock kind of Gospel). The other Is a Blues-Rock type of band. That X-170 sounds like a really cool guitar! My acoustic is a '72 Guild F-48, had it since new. Glad you're happy with that Princeton, man! Rawk-On!!! Art
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Re: Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Postby (Aclempoppi) » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:33 am

Back to amps, a 12AU7 seems to work pretty well as a compressor, in circuits such as the Bassman. I'm not refering to the first input stage. But rather the second stage( or third gain leg). Not talking about gain, per se, but an actual signal compression. What are your feelings on using the amps tubes and topography as opposed to outboard units ? Art
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Re: Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Postby (militarycollector) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:33 pm

Fender Twin.
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Re: Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Postby (Kiddwad57) » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:01 pm

Check out the Beatles Fab Gear book. They used Vox amps all along, but much of their recording was through Fenders. Lennon used a Showman and a Deluxe. Harrison apparently often used McCartney's white Bassman...it was memorialized in the Tribute Concert. Think about all those photos with a white Bassman lurking behind a baffle.
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Re: Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Postby (Aclempoppi) » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:18 am

Yeah for sure, every time i've seen the Byrds or McGuinn, it was a Twin Reverb( BF&SF). Very cool!!! Didn't know that George Harrison used the '63 or '64 Bassman!!! Art
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Re: Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Postby (Kiddwad57) » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:07 pm

There are a couple of sites that refer to The Beatles use of the '64 Bassman. Here's a good one:

http://www.beatlesgear.com/amp56.swf

I'm a big fan of Vox amps and I know they're supposed to be jangly. But the basic Vox sound, and the sound that Dick Denny has stated that he was going for when he designed the first AC15, accentuated the harmonics in the upper mids by eliminating the feedback loop; just the opposite of what Fenders are all about. Of course JMI tried to correct that when they added the top boost circuit.

If you listen to earlier recordings of The Beatles; '63, 64 through Help, their sound really is not so jangly, excepting when Harrison is using his twelve string. Harrison's sound with his Gretsch through the Vox was trebly, but not especially jangly. Lennon's rhythm tone always has that spongy sound regardless of what he's playing through.

It's really around Rubber Soul that you start hearing jangle (maybe they were trying to sound like the Byrds?) and I think it has more to do with their acquisition of Strats and Fender amps at that time.

Weird to say, but it seems to me that the Thomas Vox amps have a lot more jangle to them than the British JMI amps ever did.
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Re: Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Postby (Aclempoppi) » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:06 pm

Very good info!!! Apparently, the Bassman is the 6G6B. Three gain stages, cathode follower for the 250pf & .25uf caps in the tone stack, and no local feedback loop in the bass channel's pre-amp. No 1500 ohm input grid resistors on the 5881 power tubes. Unlike the 6G6, this amp used a solid state rectifier. Not being a big Beatles fan, this is really cool to learn!!! Especially, because I play an AA864( the next iteration), but not nearly as cool as the 6G6. Thanks for the enlightenment!!! Art
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Re: Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Postby (Kiddwad57) » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:55 pm

Well, I don't know much about the electronic side of things, but I'm fascinated by the history of the sounds of my favorite groups. Group's images are closely tied to specific brands even though in the studio anything is possible. Apparently Keith Richards recorded the Sympathy for the Devil solo through a Vox AC30. I probably would have guessed a Hiwatt at the time.
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Re: Which Fender amp for the Beatles/Byrds sound?

Postby (Aclempoppi) » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:42 am

Yeah Nathan, it's just that I get an idea of the possible sounds, when I know the circuits, speakers, and cabs(been an amp tech and player for a while). Pretty cool about Keith Richards!! I would have thought a Champ or an Ampeg Reverb-o-Rocket with a Les Paul. For sure, We equate Jimi Hendrix with the Strat and Plexi Marshall stack, but in the studio the rig could easily have been a Tele and a Twin. RAWK-ON!!! Art
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