NGD - 1961 New Capri/OS 365 - info needed for restoration

[Knave101]

That 375 is very inspiring! This era 360/70 to me really was the most beautiful guitar Rickenbacker ever made. I am really looking forward to having this project done even though there will be some scars.

I am glad you brought up the inlays as I was wondering why they weren't the crushed ones. I am fine with a 1962 or 63 as well, but that would make the fact that it has Grovers even more strange.

1) Regarding the pickguard, if I make a paper (tracing) template from my 1966 365 and send it to a guy I know who makes pickguards, will that cover the same area as the original gold guards?

2) To be clear on the cavity, I agree that the paint inside it is original, but it seems that a shot of clear coating over dirt was added (according to the luthier). I guess on this particular guitar there were no handwritten notes in the cavity, but I was wondering if the clear "dirt" coat was original?

[libratune]

1) Regarding the pickguard, if I make a paper (tracing) template from my 1966 365 and send it to a guy I know who makes pickguards, will that cover the same area as the original gold guards?

No guarantee the 66 guards will match up with the 62 guards, either in size or (especially) in screw hole placement.

You could use your 66 guard as a starting point, place it on the 62 and see how close it is to the outline -- if you can detect the outline -- of the area covered by the original guard. Once you get a paper tracing of the lower guard shape, then mark where the guard screw holes are and use that as a template for the new guard. I think you would be safe to use the 66 guard to mark where the switch and control holes go, I don't think there was that much difference in control placement in those years.

I would hold off on doing the top guard until the pickups are placed so the "lip" of the top guard is the right size.

[libratune]

I am glad you brought up the inlays as I was wondering why they weren't the crushed ones. I am fine with a 1962 or 63 as well . . .

Being a 1962/3 it would have had a silver tolex case, much easier to find in authentic vintage than a gray oilcloth case.

[Knave101]

No guarantee the 66 guards will match up with the 62 guards, either in size or (especially) in screw hole placement.

You could use your 66 guard as a starting point, place it on the 62 and see how close it is to the outline -- if you can detect the outline -- of the area covered by the original guard. Once you get a paper tracing of the lower guard shape, then mark where the guard screw holes are and use that as a template for the new guard. I think you would be safe to use the 66 guard to mark where the switch and control holes go, I don't think there was that much difference in control placement in those years.

I would hold off on doing the top guard until the pickups are placed so the "lip" of the top guard is the right size.

Thanks for that info and for the updated info on correct case--it's saving me money (in theory already). I am still ambivalent about getting the correct case or just getting a padded gig bag thing. I really can't stand taking hardshell cases to gigs. Problem is I can't seem to find a decently suitable bag for one of these--someone once asked here and got pretty well laid into!

I should mention that I wasn't going to attempt to match the screw holes from the 66 365, just the outlines. I live in Europe and the guitar is in USA so it's a complicated process. I hope the 66 365 will work as a template or I don't know what I'll do.

Good point on waiting till the neck pickup is in place before trying that part out.

--> Does anyone have any insight on whether it has happened that Grovers show up on a 62 or 63?

[libratune]

Does anyone have any insight on whether it has happened that Grovers show up on a 62 or 63?

I have seen open-backed Grovers on a 1964 360-12:

I suppose if the factory was short on Klusons on a particular day they would use whatever was on hand. IMO as long as the tuners are original to the guitar (and no extra holes were drilled) it should not affect value.

[Knave101]

Great info Ron, thanks. Your contribution is really appreciated.

Unfortunately I just missed out on the case for this on ebay. That said, I really have little need for the old cases and prefer padded bags. Someone once asked on here about a suitable bag recommendation for a guitar like this and got hit pretty hard for asking! I don't mind getting hit hard--but if someone does have a padded bag recommendation, I'd be interested to know.

[jps]

Reunion Blues.

[jwilli]

Does anyone have any insight on whether it has happened that Grovers show up on a 62 or 63?

I have seen open-backed Grovers on a 1964 360-12:

11-fullsize.jpg

12-fullsize.jpg

I suppose if the factory was short on Klusons on a particular day they would use whatever was on hand. IMO as long as the tuners are original to the guitar (and no extra holes were drilled) it should not affect value.

Ron is correct. I have a '64 450/12 and six tuners are open back, the other six were single line Klusons. I removed the tuners to check the imprints. They were original. I know of a couple of other '64 450/12s with open back tuners. Maybe they were transitioning in the double line Klusons?

[Knave101]

Hopefully there is some interest in how this project progresses.

By way of update, I've taken the decision to get the guitar up and running with whatever suitable parts are lying around, or available without a major financial committment. Then, if I like the guitar I will put in the time and money to get as many vintage parts as I can (basically, pickups, bridge and Accent by Paul--the pickguard, jack and probably the wiring will have to be repro).

The tech thinks the guitar could get away without a reset which is encouraging. Most of the especially bad rout at the neck is filled by the pickup, however the problem is that to get away with this without wood repair the pickup would have to be sitting back from the base of the neck which I think is incorrect and would look awkward.

The first two photos below (which I had intended to be the last two) are from another Rickenbacker 360 OS that was recently on Ebay. I was interested in having something similar done to this--round out and clean up the routing, add a new block of maple, match the paint as best as possible and enjoy the guitar with the scars.

[Knave101]

The work is almost done.

Two final questions (one is not vintage related but thought I'd ask):

1) What was the original angling on the edges of the early 60s gold pickguards? (45 degrees, etc).

2) I got the Lollar toaster pickups and some toaster chrome covers to put on them. The Lollar covers don't come off even when the small corner bolts are removed. Are these soldered down as well? Any tips on how to get the Lollar covers off.

I'll put up pics as soon as I get it back from the luthier!

[libratune]

The work is almost done.

Two final questions (one is not vintage related but thought I'd ask):

1) What was the original angling on the edges of the early 60s gold pickguards? (45 degrees, etc).

For that era, the edges of the pickguard should not be beveled but should be rounded over by hand-sanding.

[360dave]

Hello John......
You have a nice project there and it should be pretty nice when finished.

I have a 60' 360 Mapleglow I bought new back then and in about 63' I traded a guy for a Kauffman and roller bridge.
Big mistake.

Later I removed the Kaufmann and bought a new proper tailpiece from RIC.
It still has the roller bridge like yours.

I realize you may not have finished the work on your guitar but I thought I should mention that your bridge is installed backwards.
The screw heads should be towards the tail of the guitar in order to adjust the intonation.....just turn it around and set it up again.
In fact....the roller bridge is a tone sucker and if I were you I would replace if with a standard non-roller bridge and 360 tailpiece.
I bought a new replacement standard bridge from RIC recently and I need to get busy and get it installed.....it was not very expensive.

Have Fun

Dave

[Knave101]

At the link below you can see the finished product.

I want to thank everyone for their input and Collin and Ron in particular who gave me info on very small details.

I went with this luthier because of his ability to match paint and here again he did not disappoint. My only very slight disappointment is that the templates I provided from the closest thing I had - a 1966 365 - were not exactly on point for this guitar in terms of pickup placement (neck in particular--I think it should be right up against the base of the fretboard) and pickguard size and that no improvisation seems to have been done to get details to be as needed for this specific guitar.

Over time I am looking to replace the tailpiece with a B16 Bigsby (cutting away the Telecaster bridge and pick up bits and sanded bottom to an angle/ maybe bent hinge to fit this guitar) and experiment with a fixed saddle bridge per the tone suck point made by 360 Dave.

I will also write Lollar to see if I can change those pick up covers with the toaster ones I have without destroying the pickup in the process.

In the end though, I am very happy to have what to me is the most classic Rickenbacker ever made for half the price (or less maybe, I don't know the actual sale prices for these) of a good example. Something I can gig with happily and not cry over every ding and dent.

http://oldschoolguitar.net/projects/pot ... r-project/

[knavel]

OK, it's finally done now. I tried to upload some pics here but they are too big. I hope no one minds the link to the Gretsch site on that basis.

http://gretschpages.com/forum/other-gui ... 215/page1/

[JakeK]

Here are Mark's pics. Resized, of course.