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Information wanted: Wiring of a '58 or '59 Capri

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:06 pm
by Hotzenplotz
Actually I wonder how these guitars were wired.

AFAIK there were two 0,047 caps and a further cap.
The tone knobs worked "backwards".

Every information and detail is highly appreciated!

Here's a pic of a 1958 capri. Unfortunately I can't tell all details.
If there's a chance to uncover its secrets it would be my personal jackpot.



Many thanks in advance!

Re: Information wanted: Wiring of a '58 or '59 Capri

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:03 pm
by scott_s
The bass-cut cap (0.005uF, I would assume) can be seen between the two lower pots, as well. :)

I think I can make out "500K" on the upper left pot.

Re: Information wanted: Wiring of a '58 or '59 Capri

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:40 am
by iiipopes
It is essentially the same as 330 wiring with the in-line jangle cap. I think the original specs were 250 kohm pots for volume and 500 kohm pots for tone, although modern factory specs split the difference with 330 kohm pots. I prefer 500 kohm pots all round for maximum jangle for modern high-gains, although the vintage specs can keep lighter wound toasters from sounding thin. Modern capacitor specs are .0047 (instead of older nomenclature .005) for the jangle cap, and .047 for the tone caps (instead of .05). Personally, I put a .033 for the bridge pickup tone cap to let more high mids through when turning down instead of the .047.

Factory schematic for a 330:
http://www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/19511.pdf

Re: Information wanted: Wiring of a '58 or '59 Capri

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:16 am
by aceonbass
I build reproduction wiring harnesses for C58's that are the same. It's really just a 4001S harness with the tone pots wired backwards.

Re: Information wanted: Wiring of a '58 or '59 Capri

PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:37 am
by Hotzenplotz
Many thanks!

Some confirmation and a lot of new insights. Great!
That helps me very much.

Now I found a wiring that seems to be the way they used in the early days.

I don't want to buy it - I prefer to solder my own one with the parts I like most.

It's this:

Re: Information wanted: Wiring of a '58 or '59 Capri

PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:43 pm
by scott_s
iiipopes wrote:It is essentially the same as 330 wiring with the in-line jangle cap. I think the original specs were 250 kohm pots for volume and 500 kohm pots for tone, although modern factory specs split the difference with 330 kohm pots. I prefer 500 kohm pots all round for maximum jangle for modern high-gains, although the vintage specs can keep lighter wound toasters from sounding thin. Modern capacitor specs are .0047 (instead of older nomenclature .005) for the jangle cap, and .047 for the tone caps (instead of .05). Personally, I put a .033 for the bridge pickup tone cap to let more high mids through when turning down instead of the .047.

Factory schematic for a 330:
http://www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/19511.pdf


That's got me thinking... When I switch from my Tele or Strat to the 330, I often need to turn up the amp's treble a bit. It would be nice to release a little bit more "edge" from my bridge Hi-Gain, if there is more available. Would you say that the effect of switching from 330K pots to 500K is significant, or more of a subtle thing that you would have to listen closely to catch? Thanks.

Re: Information wanted: Wiring of a '58 or '59 Capri

PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:53 am
by aceonbass
Hotzenplotz wrote:Many thanks!

Some confirmation and a lot of new insights. Great!
That helps me very much.

Now I found a wiring that seems to be the way they used in the early days.
I don't want to buy it - I prefer to solder my own one with the parts I like most.

It's this:

That wiring harness is not correct. It is for a 4001S with standard rotation tone pots. The output jack wire isn't even shielded. That is not how it was done in "the early days". The 1st pic in this thread shows the correct wiring.

Re: Information wanted: Wiring of a '58 or '59 Capri

PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:19 am
by Hotzenplotz
aceonbass wrote:
...The output jack wire isn't even shielded. That is not how it was done in "the early days". The 1st pic in this thread shows the correct wiring.


Exactly one of the reasons why I prefer to solder my own one.

The old way of of the tone pot rotation is quite easy to create by using the opposite lugs.

Beside these "little flaws" the rest of it must be the same, right?
Unfortunately at the first pic I can't tell all details.

Re: Information wanted: Wiring of a '58 or '59 Capri

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:58 am
by jdogric12
scott_s wrote:
iiipopes wrote:It is essentially the same as 330 wiring with the in-line jangle cap. I think the original specs were 250 kohm pots for volume and 500 kohm pots for tone, although modern factory specs split the difference with 330 kohm pots. I prefer 500 kohm pots all round for maximum jangle for modern high-gains, although the vintage specs can keep lighter wound toasters from sounding thin. Modern capacitor specs are .0047 (instead of older nomenclature .005) for the jangle cap, and .047 for the tone caps (instead of .05). Personally, I put a .033 for the bridge pickup tone cap to let more high mids through when turning down instead of the .047.

Factory schematic for a 330:
http://www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/19511.pdf


That's got me thinking... When I switch from my Tele or Strat to the 330, I often need to turn up the amp's treble a bit. It would be nice to release a little bit more "edge" from my bridge Hi-Gain, if there is more available. Would you say that the effect of switching from 330K pots to 500K is significant, or more of a subtle thing that you would have to listen closely to catch? Thanks.


I've never messed with the pots in any other models, but getting one of Dane's "correct" harnesses in my 650A was a night and day difference. Can't imagine ever going back. It also goes to show why I've owned 4 or 5 650's over the years, and always sold them quickly, but now my 650A will be one of the last ones I sell.

Re: Information wanted: Wiring of a '58 or '59 Capri

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:21 pm
by maxwell
So, did Lennon have a "jangle cap" on his original 325?

Re: Information wanted: Wiring of a '58 or '59 Capri

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:59 pm
by scott_s
maxwell wrote:So, did Lennon have a "jangle cap" on his original 325?


I would assume it had one originally. After all his tinkering, who knows! :)

Re: Information wanted: Wiring of a '58 or '59 Capri

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:51 pm
by Hotzenplotz
scott_s wrote:I would assume it had one originally. After all his tinkering, who knows! :)


Maybe he created a shunt by using some chewing gum wrap?
This stuff he had always around him. ;-)