'57 Combo 450

jwilli · Post by **jwilli** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:24 am

I should take delivery of a '57 Combo 450 this Monday. At first glance, it looks like someone butchered the lower bout. They didn't. I've got another '57 thats very similar. This one has been refinned. The previous owner's Dad bought it for him in '57. I know of one other '57 Combo 450 with cut down lower bout. I call them "transitional" Combo 450s. Cool vibe. More pics when it is delivered.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:11 am

The pickguard on this one is a little different from your other one too, JWilli. I wonder if the factory rounded it off......

jwilli · Post by **jwilli** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:46 am

Check this out:

glen_l · Post by **glen_l** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:47 pm

So many variations on these Combo 450's. Now I see you can even get them in different states of arousal.

jwilli · Post by **jwilli** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:29 pm

If that upper horn starts getting longer when I play it.......

jwilli · Post by **jwilli** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:15 am

Update: The guitar is here. Original finish was Montezuma Brown. The guard was cut down a bit. Plays very nicely. Original case. Here is a pic of the seller's father back in '58. Cool. (The lower bout is original.)

jwilli · Post by **jwilli** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:31 am

Hmmm, after looking at the pics, I'm wondering if the upper AND lower bouts have been replaced??

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:52 pm

John, do you mean that you're thinking both body wings have been replaced? What's it look like under the 'guard?? I'll bet that guitar is made like a butcher block. Old snapshots like that one may be distorted a bit, and thus give a false image...The '61 Tenor Guitar I just picked up has 5 different pieces of alder making up the wings and the neck.

adam_swapp · Post by **adam_swapp** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:56 pm

Maybe it's a Tokai.

jwilli · Post by **jwilli** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:09 pm

Ha ha, not a Tokai for sure. John, Its possible that both wings were replaced. The seller did not tell me that but he did day that the sax strap hole was filled in when it was refinned......your guess is as good as mine. I also noticed that the headstock was tilted back a few more degrees than my other '57 450 (about 30 or serial numbers older).

adam_swapp · Post by **adam_swapp** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:02 pm

You may be able to see the joint(s) if you hold the guitar to the light at the right angle. Refins often don't hide that stuff as well, because the preparation techniques used (like cross grain sanding, using water to sand or wipe bare wood, or using water-based materials) often accentuate features in the underlying wood. Are you going to keep this finish, or are you going to strip it down and do it over?

Do people actually replace fins (or parts thereof)? I've seen them butchered before (e.g. the infamous 610 to 350), but that's a whole lot easier to do than a replacement, as one is just a quick and crude operation with a saw, while the other requires use of a jointer and some finesse. Not that it never happens, but I wouldn't think it happens frequently. Or were you suggesting it was done at the factory?

John S.: How is that tenor guitar? That looked like an intriguing piece.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:01 am

Adam, the Tenor Guitar is really cool and quite a looker and player. One thing that is neat is that it is very light, the neck and body wings are made of alder...It shares alot of it's construction style with the model 950, but the p/ups and wiring are more in line with a model 450. It could very well be one-of-a-kind, I certainly had never seen or heard of one prior to the listing on ebay. John Hall even sounded somewhat surprised in his post when he found a invoice on it at the factory from 19 Feb '61. Question is, who ordered it??? Hmmm...

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:13 am

a lot of used guitar sellers/traders will go into a darkened room and use a blacklight to see if there's any monkey buisness beneath a refin, specially neck repairs. Seems the crack and glue will appear under the blacklight.