Mike Rutherford's Rickenbacker Basses

[(4001G63)]

Hey Folks. Long time since I've logged on. I have much to get off my chest:

1. I was thinking about Mike Rutherford's Ricks and remembering an interview I had read of him, talking about his guitars. This was in "Genesis Magazine", the very old fan club fanzine. It was from around 1981/82. In it he stated, (I'm paraphrasing as best as I can remember) that around the time of Nursery Cryme (1971) he got a red Rickenbacker 4001 and that he, "went stereo straightaway". But photos and videos of that era clearly show him using a red RM1999 (4001S, as we affectionately call it). So I have always wondered, did he have it custom wired for stereo like Chris Squire's? Or...

2. Did he, in fact get a real 4001 a little later around the tine of Foxtrot? I have never seen a clear photo from the Foxtrot era of him playing his Rick and so can't see if he's using the RM 1999 or a 4001 (which we all know has the triangle fret markers, the binding and the stereo output)

3. Getting back to the interview, he further stated that he had "that" (referring to the above "red Rickenbacker 4001") and a Rickenbacker 12 string combined into his famous and beautiful black Rickenbacker double neck with the 12 string on top and the bass on the bottom. He had taken it to a renowned luthier of the time, Dick Knight. (And I believe this was debuted for the Selling England tour). But obviously the bass on that double neck has the deluxe features so it's not likely that it was the RM 1999, doctored up and painted, that was incorporated into that guitar.

Any thoughts, speculations, or outright correct answers to the above questions/conundrums. Thanks guys.

[(jps)]

The first time I saw Genesis (April,14 1973) was the Foxtrot tour, and it was their first time in the US. From what I recall Mike was using his RM1999; that was a long time ago but I remember the show almost like it was yesterday. We had gone to see It's A Beautiful Day, and never heard of the two opening bands. Genesis blew us all away (and the main act, too, It's A Beautiful Day - they could have stayed home, for all we cared, after seeing that amazing Genesis show ). We'd never seen anything like it. A friend that was with me kept yelling: "More masks!!!"

In the Fall of '73 and the Spring of '74 Genesis came through town on the SEBTP tour. Mike had the Dick Knight double neck for those shows; he used it a lot and we were, once again, blow away. I saw them every time they came to town up through the W&W tour, which was in a big shed, all the other shows were in small theatres. The first one was in a small gymnasium on the CWRU campus.

The stage for the CWRU show was the white curtains, as seen on the cover of the Genesis Live LP. We saw the stage hands/crew setting up the show. Mike had a white painted Acoustic 360/361 that was hidden by the curtains when they were closed for the show.

Sylvester & the Hot Band was pretty cool, too. They went on before Genesis.

[(jdogric12)]

Great questions! Wish I knew. In the meantime, console yourself with these videos...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejs00-dmuaI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9V-qVCiQM4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSVB-M83kE8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n61-vStnX1s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWLt_z7re0U

[(Ontario_RIC_fan)]

Hey Folks. Long time since I've logged on. I have much to get off my chest:

3. Getting back to the interview, he further stated that he had "that" (referring to the above "red Rickenbacker 4001") and a Rickenbacker 12 string combined into his famous and beautiful black Rickenbacker double neck with the 12 string on top and the bass on the bottom. He had taken it to a renowned luthier of the time, Dick Knight. (And I believe this was debuted for the Selling England tour). But obviously the bass on that double neck has the deluxe features so it's not likely that it was the RM 1999, doctored up and painted, that was incorporated into that guitar.

Any thoughts, speculations, or outright correct answers to the above questions/conundrums. Thanks guys.

There is info on the bass in the register.

http://www.rickresource.com/register/in ... Rutherford

The top half was ME1661, a Mapleglo 360/12 from May 1973

And the bass part was, I thought, a JG 4001 from July 1965 EG390

I have seen an early image of the bass when it was held together by tape.

[(4001G63)]

[quote="jps"]The first time I saw Genesis (April,14 1973) was the Foxtrot tour, and it was their first time in the US. From what I recall Mike was using his RM1999; that was a long time ago but I remember the show almost like it was yesterday.

Wow. Thank you for that reminiscence Jeffrey. I've never met anyone who saw them here in the US in the Gabriel days. That was a few years before my concert going days.

So if Mike was using the RM1999 during the Foxtrot tour, then I would assume he had it wired for stereo. I'm sure I'll come upon a photo from that tour sooner or later of Mike playing his bass. The photos on the cover of Genesis Live aren't clear enough to show if he is playing the RM1999 or a 4001. Thanks again!

I

[(4001G63)]

There is info on the bass in the register.

http://www.rickresource.com/register/in ... Rutherford

The top half was ME1661, a Mapleglo 360/12 from May 1973

And the bass part was, I thought, a JG 4001 from July 1965 EG390

I have seen an early image of the bass when it was held together by tape.[/quote]


Thanks Brian. That would make more sense that it was a proper 4001 that was combined with the 360/12. Again, I remember Mike clearly saying he had his red Rickenbacker combined with the 12 string, the red Rickenbacker being his RM1999. But I'm thinking that he was just being expedient in the interview rather than being accurate about having purchased a 4001 later, which, I assume he did. But again, I don't recall ever having seen a photo of him playing a 4001. And he would have only done that during the Foxtrot tour, right?

[(4001G63)]

Great questions! Wish I knew. In the meantime, console yourself with these videos...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejs00-dmuaI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9V-qVCiQM4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSVB-M83kE8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n61-vStnX1s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWLt_z7re0U

Great stuff Jason! Was an unrealized dream of mine to play in a Genesis cover band like yours. Keep up the good work.

[(Ontario_RIC_fan)]

Thanks Brian. That would make more sense that it was a proper 4001 that was combined with the 360/12. Again, I remember Mike clearly saying he had his red Rickenbacker combined with the 12 string, the red Rickenbacker being his RM1999. But I'm thinking that he was just being expedient in the interview rather than being accurate about having purchased a 4001 later, which, I assume he did. But again, I don't recall ever having seen a photo of him playing a 4001. And he would have only done that during the Foxtrot tour, right?

Actually that picture just popped up again on Facebook... So I will share it to show that the bass was JG

[(jps)]

...I will share it to show that the bass was JG

Rutherford bass.jpg

I dunno. It looks like BG to me.

[(jdogric12)]

Keep in mind, Mike was a rich kid who likely had many Rick basses come and go. While information has been shared that would lead us to think we know some things, and I do NOT doubt the intentions of those who have shared info, nor those who have relayed it, we should practice the standard treatment of skepticism due to the unreliable nature of human memory, and even written notes, especially for a relatively unimportant thing 40 years ago. I mean, they can't even get different Beatles books to agree, y'know?

[(Ontario_RIC_fan)]

Can we at least agree that the 12 string was Mapleglo??

[(collin)]

He literally duct-taped the bass and guitar together at first?

[(jdogric12)]

Yep! When Dick Knight finished the first doubleneck, apparently the paint was still sticky when he hit the road with it. I think he said he had 12 days to do it IIRC.

[(collin)]

Yep! When Dick Knight finished the first doubleneck, apparently the paint was still sticky when he hit the road with it. I think he said he had 12 days to do it IIRC.

Looks like he just hacked the bottom edge off the 360/12 and grafted it onto the intact bass. Amazing..

[(jdogric12)]

Experts I know have concluded (still just an educated guess) that the whole body is basically new, and only the necks were used. A 360 and a 4003 just don't line up that way. Plus, the bass horn over the hollow side? more weirdness.