Polishing vs Waxing
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Polishing vs Waxing
Up until now I have been very satisfied waxing my Rickenbackers, sparingly, with Carnuaba. I have read that polishing may also be helpful or perhaps preferable in the long run. I would be interested in hearing your point of view on this Mark.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Mark
I have not posted an answer to this until now because I have been looking for a book in a box that was stashed in my garage.It's called.....
Understanding Wood finishing - Bob Flexner
ISBN#0-87596-566-0
If you really want to know about finishes ,this is my 'bible' on the subject.It covers everything but automotive paints .
To answer the wax question here is the deal;
MYTH - Furniture polish/guitar polish slows down the drying out and cracking of finishes
FACT - Furniture /guitar polish has NO effect on cured finishes.If it did have some kind of beneficial effect on finishes ,such as polyurethane,acrylic,phenolic,and nitrocellulose,then you would see instructions to 'oil' all your plastic possessions.Even old celluloid film would be oiled to preserve it.
Waxes;
Commercial paste waxes are made by BLENDING several waxes together.
These waxes are chosen for cost,color,and slip resistance (for floors).But the individual waxes also vary in hardness,gloss and melting point.
The melting pointis the indication of hardness and gloss level.
The higher the melting point the harder the wax.
Beeswax melts at about 140 to 150 degrees F
Paraffin wax melts at about 130 degrees F
and Carnuba wax melts at 180 degrees.It is very hard,but it can not be buffed out by hand!
In order to use very hard waxes ,manufacturers blend in softer waxes such as paraffin.this reduces the melting point and allows the wax to be applied by hand.This brings the melting point down to about 145 degrees.ALL common paste waxes melt at this temperature.Therefore all paste waxes have the same hardness and gloss.
Try an experament on an unwaxed piece and you will see for yourself.
The only significant differance between commercially available waxes is the length of time you need to wait before you wipe off the excess wax /polish .This will depend on the solvent used to make it a paste.Either NAPTHA or Mineral Spirits are used.Neither is a solvent fot any of the finishes applied since 1945 so you are safe to use any of them.
MYTH - Paste wax and furniture/guitar polish protect the finish against heat,solvents and water damage.
FACT - Neither paste wax nor polishes offer any protection against heat or solvents. To do so the paste wax or polish would have to be more diffficult to melt than the finish.But paste wax does melt long before any finish and furiture /guitar polish is already a liquid.Though they both cause water to bead up and run off a verticle surface ,neither stops the penetration of water on a horizontal surface.
The film of wax is just to thin .Applying more wax just softens the wax that was on previuosly and doesn't add more.You in polishing are removing the old stuff.
The thicker finishes are what stop water .
In short ...if you want to protect the deterioration of finishes (this is caused by UV light,Oxidation ,physical abuse...then just keep it away from strong light,don't store the guitar in an attic or another area that gets extreme heat variations nor high temperatures at all.
And to take care of the physical abuse ...don't be Pete Townshend,he does a good job of that already.
The only reason to 'polish' a guitar is to remove the crud that has spilled on it or remove the funk of your self from it.Really you are cleaning it .If the original shine isn't there then you need to polish that and because it is most likely an automotive finish that is on it...get some kind of automotive polish.You can make it glossier to a point but then how shiny does it have to be?
If you have scratches ...you will need to smooth them out.This may require using really fine grit sandpaper and a compound.
But if the overall look is ok then don't bother.Cleaning is really the issue .If you keep spraying any guitar /furiture polish over the crud ...you are polishing the dirt not the finish.
Remove the crud then polish.
Not my opinion ...just stating a fact.
Have you ever taken a can of Pledge to your car???No way.
Nitro lacquer is softer than all the paints used on guitars of today .You can buff it out by hand.The newer finishes (for acoustics) have a flexitive product put into the mix and this will allow the face to move just like lacquer.Don't believe me? check out a Corevette bumper.the spec sheet for this aditive says that you can push the finish in 3" before the finish will crack!!Nitro lacquer will crack before that!
Understanding Wood finishing - Bob Flexner
ISBN#0-87596-566-0
If you really want to know about finishes ,this is my 'bible' on the subject.It covers everything but automotive paints .
To answer the wax question here is the deal;
MYTH - Furniture polish/guitar polish slows down the drying out and cracking of finishes
FACT - Furniture /guitar polish has NO effect on cured finishes.If it did have some kind of beneficial effect on finishes ,such as polyurethane,acrylic,phenolic,and nitrocellulose,then you would see instructions to 'oil' all your plastic possessions.Even old celluloid film would be oiled to preserve it.
Waxes;
Commercial paste waxes are made by BLENDING several waxes together.
These waxes are chosen for cost,color,and slip resistance (for floors).But the individual waxes also vary in hardness,gloss and melting point.
The melting pointis the indication of hardness and gloss level.
The higher the melting point the harder the wax.
Beeswax melts at about 140 to 150 degrees F
Paraffin wax melts at about 130 degrees F
and Carnuba wax melts at 180 degrees.It is very hard,but it can not be buffed out by hand!
In order to use very hard waxes ,manufacturers blend in softer waxes such as paraffin.this reduces the melting point and allows the wax to be applied by hand.This brings the melting point down to about 145 degrees.ALL common paste waxes melt at this temperature.Therefore all paste waxes have the same hardness and gloss.
Try an experament on an unwaxed piece and you will see for yourself.
The only significant differance between commercially available waxes is the length of time you need to wait before you wipe off the excess wax /polish .This will depend on the solvent used to make it a paste.Either NAPTHA or Mineral Spirits are used.Neither is a solvent fot any of the finishes applied since 1945 so you are safe to use any of them.
MYTH - Paste wax and furniture/guitar polish protect the finish against heat,solvents and water damage.
FACT - Neither paste wax nor polishes offer any protection against heat or solvents. To do so the paste wax or polish would have to be more diffficult to melt than the finish.But paste wax does melt long before any finish and furiture /guitar polish is already a liquid.Though they both cause water to bead up and run off a verticle surface ,neither stops the penetration of water on a horizontal surface.
The film of wax is just to thin .Applying more wax just softens the wax that was on previuosly and doesn't add more.You in polishing are removing the old stuff.
The thicker finishes are what stop water .
In short ...if you want to protect the deterioration of finishes (this is caused by UV light,Oxidation ,physical abuse...then just keep it away from strong light,don't store the guitar in an attic or another area that gets extreme heat variations nor high temperatures at all.
And to take care of the physical abuse ...don't be Pete Townshend,he does a good job of that already.
The only reason to 'polish' a guitar is to remove the crud that has spilled on it or remove the funk of your self from it.Really you are cleaning it .If the original shine isn't there then you need to polish that and because it is most likely an automotive finish that is on it...get some kind of automotive polish.You can make it glossier to a point but then how shiny does it have to be?
If you have scratches ...you will need to smooth them out.This may require using really fine grit sandpaper and a compound.
But if the overall look is ok then don't bother.Cleaning is really the issue .If you keep spraying any guitar /furiture polish over the crud ...you are polishing the dirt not the finish.
Remove the crud then polish.
Not my opinion ...just stating a fact.
Have you ever taken a can of Pledge to your car???No way.
Nitro lacquer is softer than all the paints used on guitars of today .You can buff it out by hand.The newer finishes (for acoustics) have a flexitive product put into the mix and this will allow the face to move just like lacquer.Don't believe me? check out a Corevette bumper.the spec sheet for this aditive says that you can push the finish in 3" before the finish will crack!!Nitro lacquer will crack before that!
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anon
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Mark
The paint on gloss guitars can be buffed with any automotive polish.I have used several brands over the years
Liquid ebony is good,
but I now use (since about 1993) 3M finesse-it
#05928 this is the best stuff that I have found.It's not the only stuff to use but if you know that PRS uses for their top coats Dupont Catalized Urethane then go to a auto paint suppier and ask what is the suggested polish for the kind of paint.
Then buy it and you will be happy
Liquid ebony is good,
but I now use (since about 1993) 3M finesse-it
#05928 this is the best stuff that I have found.It's not the only stuff to use but if you know that PRS uses for their top coats Dupont Catalized Urethane then go to a auto paint suppier and ask what is the suggested polish for the kind of paint.
Then buy it and you will be happy