12 String Intonation
Moderator: jingle_jangle
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Steve
For what it's worth---
I own a 370 six-string (and have a 340/12 on the way). I have experimented quite a bit with the six string re: string guages, truss rods, intonation, etc.
I have found that when you put on heavier strings, if you do not adjust the truss rods accordingly, the intonation does go sharp, and there's not enough room to pull the saddles back far enough ESPECIALLY with the low E string. But when you adjust the truss rods to Mark's specifications, the bridge seems to be in the right place. It makes sense to me--higher tension creates underbow which reduces the distance from nut to bridge and hence creates a shorter string.
Now--given that, I do prefer there to be a little underbow, because it reduces string buzz, especially when you are using a heavier guage low E-string. So I think the new bridge plate is a good idea, and am hoping it comes installed on my new 340/12 three months from now.
I own a 370 six-string (and have a 340/12 on the way). I have experimented quite a bit with the six string re: string guages, truss rods, intonation, etc.
I have found that when you put on heavier strings, if you do not adjust the truss rods accordingly, the intonation does go sharp, and there's not enough room to pull the saddles back far enough ESPECIALLY with the low E string. But when you adjust the truss rods to Mark's specifications, the bridge seems to be in the right place. It makes sense to me--higher tension creates underbow which reduces the distance from nut to bridge and hence creates a shorter string.
Now--given that, I do prefer there to be a little underbow, because it reduces string buzz, especially when you are using a heavier guage low E-string. So I think the new bridge plate is a good idea, and am hoping it comes installed on my new 340/12 three months from now.
My comments regarding strings had nothing to do with whether anyone chooses to use our brand of strings or not. My pet peeve is that even some of the best known brands of strings are highly inaccurate in their diameter from one end to another. The 12 saddle bridge can improve on the intonation of these poor quality string to some extent, but it's a Band-Aid solution. Use an accurately made string and the intonation problem goes away.
Our strings and a few other go through a secondary process where the string is compressed to make it uniform in size. Many other brands don't do this. Some really quality brands which work well are D' Addario and GHS (neither of which are suppliers to us). Some of the most commonly available strings are some of the worst but I'd rather point out those that perform well.
Our strings and a few other go through a secondary process where the string is compressed to make it uniform in size. Many other brands don't do this. Some really quality brands which work well are D' Addario and GHS (neither of which are suppliers to us). Some of the most commonly available strings are some of the worst but I'd rather point out those that perform well.
I will second this statement and this is not "Brown nosing".
I have to check strings that customers bring me all the time.
There are some really expensive ones that Jazz player seem to love that are really all over the place in size and consistancy.
Two really famous USA brands are notorious for lame strings ...I will say no further also .And I agree that D'Addario and GHS are really excellant strings .If you think that they don't last because of poor quality ...maybe it is the way you play or....your PH balance.Chemistry has a lot to do with longevity of strings.
I have to check strings that customers bring me all the time.
There are some really expensive ones that Jazz player seem to love that are really all over the place in size and consistancy.
Two really famous USA brands are notorious for lame strings ...I will say no further also .And I agree that D'Addario and GHS are really excellant strings .If you think that they don't last because of poor quality ...maybe it is the way you play or....your PH balance.Chemistry has a lot to do with longevity of strings.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
There are two other brands worth mentioning. SIT makes very nice round wound strings, while Thomastik-Infeld makes the best flats I've heard.
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Bassman_4080
I have to completely agree with Mark on the chemistry thing- I can kill a set of brand spanking new strings in under one song (studio time- 2 takes max), which is why I keep LOTS of Rick strings (my preferred 12-string and bass sets) ready for changing, and several other sets in the 'to be boiled' bin- a trick I picked up long ago- any thoughts on what effect this may have on the strings?? Saves me LOTS of money (especially bass strings!!)(sorry John!!)
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Bassman_4080
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Marty
I always bought a 10-46 D'Addario 6 string set
and made up the rest in singles on my 370-12.Put
a 10 on the high 3rd.If I wipe them down they last
reasonably long.My set-up is great,and if you follow Mark's instructions about tying your
strings and intonation yours will be too.In the
quest for ultimate tone I have tried other strings
and have been let down,live and learn.I will try
some Rickenbacker strings,they're just hard to find in the "boonies".My 360 is 12-52 ,I have to
have a little meat there.I set it up by the earlier thread,and it is a tone monster.Thanks
Mark !
and made up the rest in singles on my 370-12.Put
a 10 on the high 3rd.If I wipe them down they last
reasonably long.My set-up is great,and if you follow Mark's instructions about tying your
strings and intonation yours will be too.In the
quest for ultimate tone I have tried other strings
and have been let down,live and learn.I will try
some Rickenbacker strings,they're just hard to find in the "boonies".My 360 is 12-52 ,I have to
have a little meat there.I set it up by the earlier thread,and it is a tone monster.Thanks
Mark !
Boiling strings is not the way to clean them.
I would use some kind of plastic snap lid container ...I won't mention any brand names.
Get some Denatured alcohol and wrap your bass strings up and soak them.
If you want to really remove the crud and there are NO worn spots on the under side of the string where the frets are ,then use Hydrogen Peroxide.
Boiling in water promotes rust.
Next subject ;thanks Marty,look at what john Hall even recommends ,GHS ,SIT,D'Addario,I'm sure there are a few more .
I would use some kind of plastic snap lid container ...I won't mention any brand names.
Get some Denatured alcohol and wrap your bass strings up and soak them.
If you want to really remove the crud and there are NO worn spots on the under side of the string where the frets are ,then use Hydrogen Peroxide.
Boiling in water promotes rust.
Next subject ;thanks Marty,look at what john Hall even recommends ,GHS ,SIT,D'Addario,I'm sure there are a few more .
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
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Bill_Benton
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Rick_Wilson
Here is my long time favorite method for cleaning Roto Sound round wound bass strings on the road. I used a small amount of liquid Pine Sol, (the kind in the clear bottle/looks like apple juice), in the sink with hot hot water from the tap. I would soak the strings for 5 or so minutes, drain the sink and then rinse the strings under the tap with hot and then cold water. It works great, the strings sound near-new and its easy to do in cheap road motels.
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John_Westwood
After 30+ years longing to own a Ric bass I finally purchased one this xmas past ( plus a 360/120). In the intervening years I sold my Framus bass with a real thin neck and I have been playing an acoustic 12 string and am now finding playing the bass is quite difficult. Either my hands /fingers have shrunk, playing a 12 string( and age) has altered the flexibility of my L hand or the ric is significantly wider and longer scale .
Ok The question.
Is there any room to reduce the neck width without unduly compromising the stability of the neck?.. I m talking about a factory custom job not an alteration to a finished bass
Ok The question.
Is there any room to reduce the neck width without unduly compromising the stability of the neck?.. I m talking about a factory custom job not an alteration to a finished bass