Toaster specs on 1960's 3-pickup models.

[seoigh]

Here's some background -- here are three quotes from Fretted Americana regarding 1960's models Ricks with 3 pickups:

1966 375:
"Three "toaster" pickups with outputs of 3.81k, 3.80k, and 12.10k (that's how Rickenbacker three-pickup models measure)."

1966 345:
"Three "toaster" pickups with outputs of 3.54k, 3.43k, and 13.06k (that's how Ricky three-pickup models measure)."

1966 340:
"Three Rickenbacker chrome bar "toaster" pickups with outputs of 3.90k, 3.85k and 7.93k (the bridge pickup has the pole-pieces protruding 3/8 of an inch on the underside into a cut-out on the body as per factory specifications)."

I haven't found a lot of other reliable info about 1960's 3-pickup models online.

I am in the middle of a 375 project and I am trying to get the pickups 'right' to my ear. I've played recent-ish (late 1980s-on) 3-pickup Rickenbackers where all three pickups were approximately the same. To my ear, the middle and up positions on the selector switch sound too much alike; and not all that great. I want to avoid that.

I have also played an older 370 where this was not the case. The down position was pretty familiar. The middle position (with all 3 on) was reminiscent of a Strat tone -- very quacky, but with a lot more chime. The top position (middle and neck pickup) was a less biting version of that quack, but still discernible from the middle tone.

I have a long pole-piece toaster that I am going to use for the bridge -- it's somewhere in the 10k range. That seems to be in keeping with period guitars. I also have some recent 7.4k scatterwound toasters. I am thinking of having those unwound to about 4K each. Here comes the question part: These things are wired in parallel, and if I am doing the math on that right, the middle/neck combo of two 4K pickups would be 1/R1 + 1/R2 = 1/R,total, so 1/4K + 1/4K = 1/2, ergo, total R=2K. So wouldn't that make for a 10K bridge and a really, really weak 2K middle/neck?

I know the other route is to do 3 scatterwound toasters at 7.4k and have it wired with the fifth-knob 'mix mod' change and just dial in whatever tone I am after. But I really believe that with well-selected pickups, I won't need to do that. I mean, I have played an old 370 where if you had all the main knobs dimed and the the fifth knob biased all the way in favor of the neck, the three tones you'd get were completely distinct and usable. That's all I'm after.

So what K values should I be targeting for those neck and middle pickups? Is 4K too low?

[libratune]

Here's some background -- here are three quotes from Fretted Americana regarding 1960's models Ricks with 3 pickups:
1966 375:
"Three "toaster" pickups with outputs of 3.81k, 3.80k, and 12.10k (that's how Rickenbacker three-pickup models measure)."
1966 345:
"Three "toaster" pickups with outputs of 3.54k, 3.43k, and 13.06k (that's how Ricky three-pickup models measure)."
1966 340:
"Three Rickenbacker chrome bar "toaster" pickups with outputs of 3.90k, 3.85k and 7.93k (the bridge pickup has the pole-pieces protruding 3/8 of an inch on the underside into a cut-out on the body as per factory specifications)."

I have several 3-PU Ricks from '66 to '69 and those measurements don't match mine at all. Regardless of long-pole or short-pole, the reads on the original toaster PUs on my guitars range from approximately 6.5k to 8.1k. The bridge PU is always a long pole and has slightly more output than the others, but nothing like the readings quoted above.

And this business about "that's how Ricky three-pickup models measure" is pure hooey, IMO, at least as applied to '60s scatterwound toasters.

Also, remember '60s toasters have much less output than the PUs on the '80s Rick you played, which would have had hi-gain PUs reading in the 12k area.

Good luck with your project!

[seoigh]

Quick question, then:

With all main knobs dimed out and the fifth knob all the way toward the bass side of things, do you still get plenty of difference in tone in the middle and up positions of the switch, or do you have to dial back the fifth knob to achieve that?

I'm sorry to be so specific, but it really seems that most 370 owners are after only that Byrds tone. More power to them, but that's not what I'm after. I really rather like the sound with all three on.

Right now I am leaning towards going 11k-7.4k-7.4k and just seeing how I like it. I can always do or undo anything, after all.

[seoigh]

Another note... I wonder how many 3-pickup Ricks with even-rated pickups started life as 330s or 360s...

[collin]

A lot of the earlier ('61-'66) middle and neck pickups are long-pole and have identical output readings at the pickup. If anything, it's the wiring that is responsible for the lowered output at any of the positions.

I only have a '64 1998 model as a reference, and all three are long-pole with similar output readings.

[seoigh]

Please don't take this personally -- I am merely trying to rule out all possibilities. Is there any way you can be absolutely certain that your guitar has always been a 1998? Do you know for certain it was born with all three pickups? I'm just trying to rule everything out, you know?

[collin]

Please don't take this personally -- I am merely trying to rule out all possibilities. Is there any way you can be absolutely certain that your guitar has always been a 1998? Do you know for certain it was born with all three pickups? I'm just trying to rule everything out, you know?

Bradley, without question... It's a Rose Morris 1998......they sold hundreds of these.

[seoigh]

I think I have my answer. If you measure these things without unsoldering them, for the middle and neck you'd get the result of this:

1/resistance of first pickup + 1/resistance of second pickup = 1 / resistance of both --- so plug in some numbers
1/7.4 + 1/7.4 = 1/R
2/7.4 = 1/R
R = 3.7

Hence you'd get a reading in the high 3's if the pickups were in the mid 7's, as most were.

As to the bridge pickup, measured in-situ with the 0047 cap in place, it would read hot.

What I am saying is that Fretted Americana isn't measuring them correctly -- I suspect. Honest mistake -- and it IS what the multi-meter would read.

So that being said, if I use two modern 7.4K scatterwound toasters and use a bridge pickup that's just a wee bit hot (8.5-ish), I should have that ideal tone I am going for.

[collin]

If anything, it's the wiring that is responsible for the lowered output at any of the positions.

So, like I said?


Glad you got your answer Bradley, follow up with us when you give it a try!

[rkbsound]

A lot of the earlier ('61-'66) middle and neck pickups are long-pole and have identical output readings at the pickup. If anything, it's the wiring that is responsible for the lowered output at any of the positions.

I only have a '64 1998 model as a reference, and all three are long-pole with similar output readings.

I converted my 1966 340 to a 330, as part of a resto, and the middle pickup is short pole. It's a later '66, though. I'm hoping to find a project Rick to put it in. Kinda sad just sitting in my drawer!