How to use clear as a sealer?

Setup, repair and restoration of Rickenbacker Instruments

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basshead
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Re: How to use clear as a sealer?

Post by basshead »

DELTRON® D800 Clear is a general purpose medium solids clear coat for all kinds of repairs and body shop operations. It can be air dried or low baked. Easy to apply, D800 give a reliable, durable finish, job after job.

Recommended for high solids applications which are going to be stoved, DELTRON® D880 Clear delivers a premium quality finish in two coats, drying in 40 minutes at 60 degrees C.

Deltron D8120 High Solids Clear is a premium quality high solids polyurethane clearcoat specifically formulated to give optimum gloss and durability when low-baked. It is designed for the repair and respray of motor vehicles as part of a basecoat/clearcoat repair process.

Deltron CeramiClear® 8122 is a 2K acrylic urethane Clearcoat, for the repair and respray of vehicles originally finished with CeramiClear® Clearcoat, over a single or multistage colour basecoat system. D8122 contains the CeramiClear® technology that gives excellent scratch resistance. D8122 is designed for use over GRS Deltron BC or Envirobase High Performance colour.

Your thoughts guys?
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Re: How to use clear as a sealer?

Post by Wiker »

Sorry I can’t help you choose, but I believe you’ll be ok with any of those.
http://master.ppgrefinish.com/en/produc ... clearcoat/
If I was to choose I think I would go with the D880 based on nothing else than that is seems like the one closest to the Glasurit I’m using myself – HS (high solids) and has a very convenient 2:1 mixing ration.
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Re: How to use clear as a sealer?

Post by Wiker »

jingle_jangle wrote:. . . Thanks, Geir!
Thank you for all the expert knowledge you have shared over the years, without which I would never have been able to approach a refinish.
Thanks Paul :D
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basshead
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Re: How to use clear as a sealer?

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Wiker wrote:Sorry I can’t help you choose, but I believe you’ll be ok with any of those.
http://master.ppgrefinish.com/en/produc ... clearcoat/
If I was to choose I think I would go with the D880 based on nothing else than that is seems like the one closest to the Glasurit I’m using myself – HS (high solids) and has a very convenient 2:1 mixing ration.
Ok, ta. Just so I have this straight myself;
  • I spray the whole guitar with it thinned as a sealer/undercoat,

    Rub that back with 220 (except for the fingerboard) without rubbing through,

    Mask up the fingerboard but what about the binding? I assume I don't want to put colour over the binding?

    Spray the colour,

    Rub the colour back with what? Or, don't rub it back at all?

    Final coats of clear. Over the fingerboard again?
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Re: How to use clear as a sealer?

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basshead wrote:Ok, ta. Just so I have this straight myself;
  • I spray the whole guitar with it thinned as a sealer/undercoat,

    Rub that back with 220 (except for the fingerboard) without rubbing through,

    Mask up the fingerboard but what about the binding? I assume I don't want to put colour over the binding?

    Spray the colour,

    Rub the colour back with what? Or, don't rub it back at all?

    Final coats of clear. Over the fingerboard again?
Yes, that’s basically it.

I don’t think the pros mask the binding but scrape it clean with something like a razorblade after color coating. But I guess you could mask it also.

If you need to rub back between coats depends. If you go with the D880 the TDS say you can spray next coat after 8 hours. Also say to flat previous coat with 500 dry paper if more than 24 hours between coats. (500 is very fine. I think I would go down to 400 or 320 myself just to be sure.) Meaning, if you spray next coat within 24 hours you don’t need to rub back to get good bonding between coats. After the color coat I think I would try to get one coat of clear on it within 24 hours to avoid the need of sanding on the color coat. However, if getting any dust in the finish obviously would like to sand that off.

Finishing the fretboard, I guess Paul and other experts with experience simply finish it along with the rest of the bass. As I wrote previously somewhere the fretboard is a challenge in itself as any uneven coating easily shows against the frets, and also to get equal build-up on both sides of the frets.
I’m not sure yet how I will do it, but I think I will do the fretboard (at least two last coats on the board) by itself after everything else, so that I can concentrate only on the fretbaord to get it right. I will then mask top of the board while doing the rest of the bass, and cover up the body and headstock while doing the top of the fretboard.
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Re: How to use clear as a sealer?

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Thanks Geir. I spoke to the guys in the paint shop and they told me that PPG D893 is "the same" as 2024, lol. I did point out that if it was the same, it would be called 2024 but they reckon it's very close.

The recoat/overcoat time is 8 hours, whether that's with more clear or the colour.

The paint I ended up getting is a base coat and is basically a matt finish so once I spray the colour, if it doesn't need rubbing back then I'll recoat with clear again after 8 hours. I got them to mix me some VW L360 but it didn't look much like what I thought Azureglo looked like so I ended up going with PPG RAL5005. I think it looks close but even if it's not, I like the colour so 5005 it is!

Lol, starting to get nervous now...
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Re: How to use clear as a sealer?

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basshead wrote:Thanks Geir. I spoke to the guys in the paint shop and they told me that PPG D893 is "the same" as 2024, lol. I did point out that if it was the same, it would be called 2024 but they reckon it's very close.

The recoat/overcoat time is 8 hours, whether that's with more clear or the colour.

The paint I ended up getting is a base coat and is basically a matt finish so once I spray the colour, if it doesn't need rubbing back then I'll recoat with clear again after 8 hours. I got them to mix me some VW L360 but it didn't look much like what I thought Azureglo looked like so I ended up going with PPG RAL5005. I think it looks close but even if it's not, I like the colour so 5005 it is!
Great :D
basshead wrote:Lol, starting to get nervous now...
Know what you mean. Eager to get going, but would recommend doing a complete test finishing on a plank or plywood board just to see if it turns out as expected. One never knows. Better to spend some extra time testing than having to sand down the bass once more :wink:

Fingers crossed and good luck!
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Re: How to use clear as a sealer?

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Wiker wrote:3M PPS:

What you need:

1) An adapter to fit your gun. Find an adapter with a threading that fits the threads on your gun.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/e ... BL0BRFN3gl
I need to go back to the shop with my gun to (hopefully) get an adaptor that fits.
Wiker wrote:2) Then you need a cup and collar.
http://3mcollision.com/products/paint-a ... system/pps
If your gun uses a pressure cup you’ll need one of the pressure cups. I went with the mini size 6 oz cup – conveniently small but still large enough for guitar finishing.
Got one of these:
16001_3M-PPS-Mixing-Cup-and-Collar.jpg
Wiker wrote:3) Finally a box or two of lids and liners
http://3mcollision.com/products/paint-a ... and-liners
For a mini size 6 oz cup, the #16114 kit contains 50 liners and 50 lids with 200 micron filters for solvent based paint.
Some of these:
16000_3M-PPS-Kit-Standard.jpg
Wiker wrote:4) I didn’t bother with the mixing ration inserts myself.
http://3mcollision.com/products/paint-a ... io-inserts
They didn't have any anyway but all the measurements are on the mixing cup, so no real need.
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Re: How to use clear as a sealer?

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Got an adaptor today. It'll certainly be a lot less hassle using this PPS system. I've pencilled in Saturday for paint :shock:
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Re: How to use clear as a sealer?

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basshead wrote:Got an adaptor today. It'll certainly be a lot less hassle using this PPS system. I've pencilled in Saturday for paint :shock:
Great! You won’t regret that investment. Makes spraying-life easier :)


My schedule has been set back a quite some time now. Was put up a rotating devise to hang the bass from in the garage ceiling last week. Fell off the stool I was standing on and hurt my right shoulder quit badly on the concrete floor. (Didn’t have to do any vacuuming last Friday though )
Finally did the sealing coat yesterday. Started sanding last evening and finished this morning. Almost completed the fireglo spray. I promised myself to take it slow, but - almost finished when I noticed :shock: A SMALL RUN. At first I was going to let it set and then sand down the run, but after some coffee and a few cigarettes I knew I will not be satisfied with this. So, out in the garden and wiped off as much as I could with paper towels and reducer. Now I’ll have to sand it back and start over. @#&# grrr :x
Vacation time soon so I won’t be able to spray it again until late august.

Sealing coat
Image

Doesn’t look much fireglo yet, but this is just the first layer with a brown orange-red color.
Image

Anyway.
Doing the sealing coats I didn’t follow my original plane.
I did not thin it down as much as I first though necessary, and didn’t spray as thin as I first planed to. Seemed to work out well though.
Mixed 100 ml / 3.4 oz (incl. 67% reducer), which was enough for one "heavy" mist coat, followed by a very light coat an hour later.
Then mixed 120 ml / 4 oz (incl. 33% reducer), enough for a light coat three hours later.
When sanding, the 220 paper cut too fast and I had to patch up a few spots where I went through to the wood. Switched to 320 paper.


So, now it’s your turn. :wink:
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Re: How to use clear as a sealer?

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Wiker wrote:So, now it’s your turn. :wink:
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Re: How to use clear as a sealer?

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Wiker wrote:...almost finished when I noticed :shock: A SMALL RUN. At first I was going to let it set and then sand down the run, but after some coffee and a few cigarettes I knew I will not be satisfied with this. So, out in the garden and wiped off as much as I could with paper towels and reducer. Now I’ll have to sand it back and start over. @#&# grrr :x
Vacation time soon so I won’t be able to spray it again until late august.
Damn, that's a shame. I bet you were cursing and swearing?
Wiker wrote:So, now it’s your turn. :wink:
Yep. All set for tomorrow. I spent a few hours on the bass last night getting all the last little nooks and crannies sanded so just need to wipe down and start spraying...
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Re: How to use clear as a sealer?

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basshead wrote:
Wiker wrote:...almost finished when I noticed :shock: A SMALL RUN. At first I was going to let it set and then sand down the run, but after some coffee and a few cigarettes I knew I will not be satisfied with this. So, out in the garden and wiped off as much as I could with paper towels and reducer. Now I’ll have to sand it back and start over. @#&# grrr :x
Vacation time soon so I won’t be able to spray it again until late august.
Damn, that's a shame. I bet you were cursing and swearing?
Just as well that happened after all as I wouldn’t have been satisfied anyway. With two strong halogen lamps (each 500W, 9000 lm) directly onto the bass the translucent colours disappears a bit, making it hard to judge while spraying. Looking at it now, at least the first colour layer I sprayed too broad and too dark. I got myself a new 1300 lm lamp now with a more natural white light. So much to learn about finishing.
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