"An Allen What.......?"

Setup, repair and restoration of Rickenbacker Instruments

Moderator: jingle_jangle

"An Allen What.......?"

Postby (pathelms) » Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:08 pm

I heard it said once, back in the 70's, "to own a Harley you better learn how to tighten your nuts.....or you'd lose 'em!"

I been playing guitars longer than I've been driving, but I've avoided learning how to fix either.

A few weeks ago, the time was right to finally take a chance on a 660/12 and a brand new AC15. It'll be a while before I'll be able to do them justice, but I'm enjoying every minute its taking to get there.

The seller said he did a set up. I'm not doubting him, but I'm already experiencing buzz on the B and D. I'm taking her to Nashville to have someone look at it and do another set it up - just to make sure.....and just as importantly, to establish a good doctor/patient relationship. (Myself? No, I don't have a doctor yet - but my guitar will!)

However, I don't want to close the book there. I want to maintain her properly. I live in a barn (.....yeah, and was raised in one too!). While it stays comfortable, I'm wondering if the barometer had an effect on the truss. Can Ric 12s be that finicky? I'm sorta thinking so.

So, what's the best general book, video, resource I can learn from and apply to keep this tonal hydra fit and happy to sing sweetly to the cows and chickens?

Cheers!
User avatar
(pathelms)
New member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: "An Allen What.......?"

Postby (jdogric12) » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:11 am

Welcome Pat. I'd love to see some pics of the guitar, amp and barn!!!

Ricks are happy at 40-50% humidity. The old McGuinn 12-string video is good for learning all the quirks of setting these things up. Do you want low action, straight neck? A Rick performs well set up that way. Just make sure to use the right tool on the truss rod nuts, a long handled 1/4" nut driver, and only do about a 1/4 turn at a time, let it sit for about 24 hours and repeat as needed. Takes some time, but you'll get it right. As far as buzzing, while "ALAPWOB" is popular, many Rick 12 folks like me have learned to live with a little buzz, it's part of the charm. But if it bothers you, just loosen the rods a smidge to allow a little relief and see if that takes care of it. Good luck!
(jdogric12)
Rick-a-holic
 
Posts: 10138
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:00 am

Re: "An Allen What.......?"

Postby (pathelms) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:36 am

IMG_4388.jpg
Family Portrait
Thanks so much, Jason! Just so happens that Roger's dvd came in the mail yesterday. As with most things with me, it was helpful produce more questions.

Do most players tune down to E-flat and use a capo for neck relief?

Does tuning down like that make it easier and safer to use his string lifting technique off the nut to access the trust?

Wouldn't a good socket wrench do better than a hand driver with vice grips for the truss?

Then there's how to optimize intonation via the 12 slot saddle.....but I can probably find a write up on that somewhere.

Hope the pictures are doing justice.
Attachments
IMG_4396.JPG
IMG_4389.jpg
BarnCave
User avatar
(pathelms)
New member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: "An Allen What.......?"

Postby (jdogric12) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:05 am

Ignore that Eb business. That video was made so long ago it mattered then, but Rick 12's have been solid for decades now and no longer need that kid glove treatment. You'll be fine permanently leaving it in concert E tuning.

Detuning does make it easier to lift the strings to get under the TRC, but I wouldn't bother... you'll so rarely need to adjust a modern one like that.

Also ignore the tools RM uses in that video... use a long handled nut driver like RIC sells.

Intonation you should just do by ear or with a tuner. Compare the harmonic at the 12th fret to the fretted note at the 12th fret. Using a tuner is actually best, to get it as close as you can.

Thanks for posting pics - looks great! I was wondering who finally ended up with that one - seems like it was listed for sale forever. It looks great but I'd probably have gone with a straight edged upper guard like a 370, not the "teeth" look that reseller went with.
(jdogric12)
Rick-a-holic
 
Posts: 10138
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:00 am

Re: "An Allen What.......?"

Postby (pathelms) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:13 pm

Ah, but I love a guitar with teeth! ( ;

Been wanting one since I bought Mr Tambourine Man at the Record Barn in 1980! Every 7 - 9 months, i’d get the jonesing for another Ric12. I new i’d Have get a proper amp so going into more debt would always help bring me “back to my senses.” Last time, as a pup, I was trying to play a 330 through a 12 Gorilla. Pitiful!! Had to sell it before I realized that error.

The other inhibitor was always not knowing where it Might come from and it’s real condition.

Just went through a real heartbreaking loss of the old family farm. Didn’t get much out of in the process either.....but just enough to say “screw it, i’I’ll get that Ric!” So, I went on eBay and BANG! there it was - love at first sight and a “670” to boot! There were several qualities about the seller that I admired. He was willing to haggle some, so I got a fair deal on it.

Weirdest part of it all: I didn’t realize until afterwards that she shared the same colors as the farm’s beloved 150 year old cabin that was bulldozed down the day she arrived. Teal green with gold trim.

There is a God.
User avatar
(pathelms)
New member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: "An Allen What.......?"

Postby (jdogric12) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:41 pm

Very sorry to hear about the farm, but glad you're able to enjoy a new guitar in the wake of the loss.

Just curious - you're aware that 670 is not a real model... this seller just bought a 660 and did some personal mods to it (including the irreversible 3rd pickup) and then sold it as "custom shop," right? Not to detract from your acquisition, just making sure you're not under the impression it's RIC sanctioned in any way.
(jdogric12)
Rick-a-holic
 
Posts: 10138
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:00 am

Re: "An Allen What.......?"

Postby (pathelms) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:27 pm

Oh yeah, definitely - that's why I quoted the "670".

Hadn't thought about that 3rd toaster being heretical though. COOL! 8)

Having never messed with a 370, I have no idea about the sound difference. Somewhere (on here, I think) I understood the extra toaster serving as a booster for the neck.

Mutant or not, its sounds wonderful. :D
User avatar
(pathelms)
New member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: "An Allen What.......?"

Postby (jdogric12) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:07 pm

The third pickup gives a Rick 12 a kind of shimmer and glassiness to the tone that's not there in a 2-pickup model.

Here's a band I had 10 years ago in Florida... listen to Mountain, that's a 370/12SPC (McGuinn without the compressor or signature, basically)

https://www.amazon.com/Rhymes-Orange/dp/B001O54QK0
(jdogric12)
Rick-a-holic
 
Posts: 10138
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:00 am

Re: "An Allen What.......?"

Postby (collin) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:20 pm

A. Welcome to the RRF, Pat.

B. While not original, the 660/12 looks awesome with a third pickup. Just saying..

C. You have a GORGEOUS barn, there. Just beautiful inside with the wood finishing etc. Kudos!

D. Don't use a socket for the truss rod. You could, I suppose, but the nuts aren't hard to turn and it's best to use the proper screwdriver-style tool from RIC. It's relatively inexpensive.
User avatar
(collin)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6421
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:28 pm
Location: Corona, CA, USA

Re: "An Allen What.......?"

Postby (jdogric12) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:53 pm

Ive wanted to add a converter comb kit to a 660/12 for many years... can you imagine the model number???? Ha ha ha
(jdogric12)
Rick-a-holic
 
Posts: 10138
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:00 am

Re: "An Allen What.......?"

Postby (collin) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:15 pm

jdogric12 wrote:Ive wanted to add a converter comb kit to a 660/12 for many years... can you imagine the model number???? Ha ha ha


You, and your headgear fetish. :lol:
User avatar
(collin)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6421
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:28 pm
Location: Corona, CA, USA

Re: "An Allen What.......?"

Postby (jps) » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:37 am

jdogric12 wrote:Ive wanted to add a converter comb kit to a 660/12 for many years... can you imagine the model number???? Ha ha ha

In the words of the legendary Jared:

Do_it R.jpg
Do_it R.jpg (12.76 KiB) Viewed 1640 times
(Insert famous quote here)
User avatar
(jps)
RRF Consultant
 
Posts: 35880
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:00 am
Location: Not of this Earth

Re: "An Allen What.......?"

Postby (pathelms) » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:51 am

Thanks so much for the advice on the truss wrench, y’all. Just ordered one from POTR.

I am truly blessed to be in this barn, Collin. Living the dream.....at least while the job lasts! Interesting story how I found it......

Really liked what I heard, Jason. Was that a different Ric played on Four Corners?

I can get into a tonal nirvana with mine - hitting that sweet spot RM got on 5D and One in a Hundred. To be able to play a decent approximation of those songs sends me into orbit! Definitely feel like the intonation needs to be looked at though. I play a fair amount of my own material with capo on the second fret and it’s sounding a little rough there. That high G can be a dream and a nightmare in the course of same song!

One thing I noticed on the RM video was his sustain with no wobbles to be heard. Can’t say the same here. Could it be the strings? This one came with EB rounds on it.
User avatar
(pathelms)
New member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: "An Allen What.......?"

Postby (jdogric12) » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:09 am

pathelms wrote:Really liked what I heard, Jason. Was that a different Ric played on Four Corners?


Thanks! I miss those guys. Not the state though lol

I think the solo on 4C might have been an '86 360/12 RED/BT but I'm not sure. I think I still have the Pro Tools session files somewhere but that would take some digging. The acoustic was an '05 730L/12 FG, one of the last factory Rick acoustics. Loved it! MIss that too sometimes. Dope on a Rope is an Epi ES-295 and a Rick 360 75th anniversary. Can't remember what else Rick-wise from that record. The next album "Shine" had more Ricks.

As for the intonation, I guess just make really sure your capo placement is super precise at just the right spot between the frets to reduce unnecessary additional pressure (like when you fret a note too hard) and that the action is as low as possible to begin with. You're using a wound 20 for the G fundamental and the A octave, right?
(jdogric12)
Rick-a-holic
 
Posts: 10138
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:00 am

Re: "An Allen What.......?"

Postby (pathelms) » Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:30 pm

Jason,

I'd suspect that the EB's used were Slinky wounds. Therefore, the G is a 14 and the octave A is a 17. I do know that a 46 was substituted for the top E 40, but there are no other substitutions to my knowledge.

I splurged on some TI flats. Should that help me some here?

Thanks for the capo suggestion, I'll fiddle with that some more.
User avatar
(pathelms)
New member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:18 am

Next

Return to "Vibrola" Rickenbacker Technical Forum: By Paul Wilczynski

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest