How Legal Is This?

bluegrassmoker · Post by **bluegrassmoker** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:01 pm

oh its legal

winston · Post by **winston** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:11 pm

bluegrassmoker wrote:i want some blueprints for the bantar if i cant buy one i might just make one until i can purchase the real thing although i don't know what wood they used and how to make crushed pearl inlay....

You will get yourself into a whole pile of hot water if you go ahead with that plan Patrick and let's just say having to deal with RIC legal......... would not be the best day of your life.

egosheep · Post by **egosheep** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:12 pm

I think it's pretty clear these plans themselves are legal. They have been up for a while now; as we all know, auctions with just a hint of impropriety are usually dead links before most of us can see the photos.

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:43 pm

If these were posted by a US seller, these would not be legal and we could easily take action. However, as they're offered by an Australian seller it's a little bit of a gray area and the procedure is a bit more complex. However, as soon as we document sale to an American buyer, we'll be able to take quick action.

tristanbacker · Post by **tristanbacker** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:20 am

The best action is John Hall or someone in his behalf who work for Rickenbacker buy the blueprint from the seller. When the item arrive to Ric offices the 1 step is send a e-mail to the seller telling the item is ilegal because there are a violation of a patent guitar or bass and recover the money. If the seller don´t want to do it, Ric Company can put him a negative vote or legal actions against him. I´m a attorney who represent some brands in Spain and that is way to act here.

DavidSchwab · Post by **DavidSchwab** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:50 pm

Clint wrote:Nowhere in the description does the seller mention the word "art". It also says nothing about being suitable for framing. I think the fact that the seller is a luthier supply shop gives us a pretty big clue as to the plans intended use.

You can build yourself a copy of a Ric. You just can't sell it.

You can make yourself anything in an active patent too, as long as it's for your own non commercial use.

wim · Post by **wim** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:56 pm

It's only a drawing with measurements.
Anybody who can get his hands on any guitar can take the measurements en produce a CAD file.
I did this too, just for the fun of the 3D drawing in my case. (posted the results several years ago on this forum)

cjj · Post by **cjj** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:57 pm

DavidSchwab wrote:
Clint wrote:Nowhere in the description does the seller mention the word "art". It also says nothing about being suitable for framing. I think the fact that the seller is a luthier supply shop gives us a pretty big clue as to the plans intended use.
You can build yourself a copy of a Ric. You just can't sell it.

You can make yourself anything in an active patent too, as long as it's for your own non commercial use.

That's true of patents. Not necessarily for trademarks and trade dress...

DavidSchwab · Post by **DavidSchwab** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:08 pm

tristanbacker wrote:The best action is John Hall or someone in his behalf who work for Rickenbacker buy the blueprint from the seller. When the item arrive to Ric offices the 1 step is send a e-mail to the seller telling the item is ilegal because there are a violation of a patent guitar or bass and recover the money.

It's not a patent. It's a trademark.

If you are not making something for sale, you have not infringed on a trademark. So, if you are making copies of Rics, and passing them off as Rics, that's clearly a violation of the trademark. If you are making something that resembles a Ric enough to cause confusion or is just a close proximity, then you are infringing.

Blueprints? It's a drawing. What about something like this:

http://www.cafepress.com/+beatleguitar1 ... ,594831014

Or how about if you buy a book with photos of various guitars, including a Ric? It's a visual representation. Is that violating the trademark?

People sell guitar ads from magazines on ebay all the time. Those magazines were copyrighted at the time. But, it's not illegal to sell old books or magazines.

I'm not sure if selling a drawing of a trademarked guitar shape is violating the trademark, since it's not a guitar being sold.

But I'm not a lawyer either.

electrofaro · Post by **electrofaro** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:25 pm

DavidSchwab wrote:if you are not making something for sale, you have not infringed on a trademark.

In law school I learned that if your grannie makes you a sweater with Mickey Mouse on it, then it still violates the trademark if Mickey Mouse is a trade mark - it's all about exclusivity of the mark, not about profit/monetary gains you might or not make... now, Mickey Mouses come in drawings, but also puppets etc. So do guitars!

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:59 pm

This discussion is one of the most (un)popular on the RRF...search the threads...I'm talked out on it. (How do you spell "relief"?)

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:37 pm

jingle_jangle wrote:This discussion is one of the most (un)popular on the RRF...search the threads...I'm talked out on it. (How do you spell "relief"?)

I agree, as many people are totally clueless regarding trademark law or, more correct precedent, which is the bulk of trademark issues. They simply perpetuate and expand upon myths.

As has been said before, it's pretty hard to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:31 pm

johnhall wrote:As has been said before, it's pretty hard to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Great quote. So true.

bluegrassmoker · Post by **bluegrassmoker** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:43 pm

bluegrassmoker wrote:i want some blueprints for the bantar if i cant buy one i might just make one until i can purchase the real thing although i don't know what wood they used and how to make crushed pearl inlay....

You will get yourself into a whole pile of hot water if you go ahead with that plan Patrick and let's just say having to deal with RIC legal......... would not be the best day of your life.

Even if it was just for myself?? Then once I go tthe real thing I would burn it in the fireglow fashion....

Grey · Post by **Grey** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:52 pm

bluegrassmoker wrote:You will get yourself into a whole pile of hot water if you go ahead with that plan Patrick and let's just say having to deal with RIC legal......... would not be the best day of your life.

I've asked this question before but has Rickenbacker ever sought legal action against an individual for making a copy? I don't think so. Quite simply they probably have bigger fish to fry with the people attempting to profit from their intellectual property. Yes, it's illegal, and yes, if you go bragging about it here or the corporate site people will not like you for it, but if you hang up a set of blueprints on your wall nothing is going to happen, righteous indignation aside.

Even if you built yourself a copy (something I am not attempting to endorse, merely pursuing an interesting topic of discussion) you are not likely to have lawyers showing up at your door to burn it. Point being, this is a moot topic. If you want it, do it. But don't ask and don't tell. The rest of us will flag the listings that we see on eBay and the websites that spring up to sell copies. I am 100% opposed to copies-for-profit, but have a less popular opinion when it comes to copies for personal use.

I am however grateful that the discussion of these subjects is generally allowed here.

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