Pickup Positions

[cjj]

OK, here's another version of the pickup visual placement stack-up drawing. It's still kind of hard to see it all, mostly I added transparency to the upper ones where they overlap.

Interesting that most of the neck pickups are pretty close together, the exception being the 4002, which has its neck pickup in the same position as the 4004LK's middle pickup. 4001's 4003's & 4004Cii's have the bridge pickup in pretty much the same place. And, the 4002, 4005 and 4004LK have the bridge pickup way down towards the bridge, similar positions, with the 4004LK almost between the 4002 & 4005 spots.

[paul_yan]

Excellent thread, Cj!

The discussion so far has already answered many of my questions regarding PU positions! Please go on, guys!

[rickenbrother]

Okay, keeping with the measurements of distance from the 20th fret to the center of the pickups on my '04 4004Cii JG:
Bass Pickup: 2.34"
Treble Pickup: 7.47"

[cjj]

Hey Joey, thanks for taking the time to measure your 4004Cii. I've always wondered what the real differences were from the original 4004Cii placement was to the modern version with pickup placed to make truss rod access easier.

Your 04 4004Cii has the neck pickup in a new place, further back from most of the other neck pickups. The bridge pickup is again, in a new place, between the 4002/4005/4004LK and the 4001/4003/Modern 4004Cii position.

I'm not sure if the 20th fret is the best measurement, but, at least for 33 1/2" scale basses, it should be consistent. The bridge is a bit less so since that measurement will vary for each string based on intonation adjustments. I suppose if anyone bothers to send in measurements for 3000 series basses, I'll have to figure out what to do with those...

Anyway, here's a new diagram, with the early 4004Cii pickup shown:

The Bridge pickup for the older 4004Cii was somewhere between the 4004LK/4002/4005 area and the modern 4004Cii/4001/4003 position, while the neck pickup was further back than any other bass so far.

I really wonder just how RIC comes up with the placement of the pickups and just what effect the different positions have on the tone...

[cjj]

Ooh, Zombie Thread Alert! Wow, almost 7 years ago!

What can I say, I was looking through some old files and found the stuff on pickup placement and decided to do something I had been meaning to do since way back when this was a new thread - plot the pickup positions with respect to string vibrational nodes/anti-nodes.

Anyway, here it is, the first 5 harmonics of every fretted string position up to 21 frets along with the positions of pickups for a 4001 with the old 1/2 inch neck pickup spacing, 4001 with 1 inch, 4002, 2004 4004Cii, 2008 4004Cii, 4005, 60's Fender Jazz, 70's fender Jazz (Fender positions scaled to the Rick 33.25 inch scale), and the 4004LK.

Vibration nodes (where strings are essentially not moving) are the dots above the horizontal axis, pickup positions below. Bridge is on the left side.

For the most part, it seems the pickups are placed between nodes, where the strings have maximum vibration, but not in all cases. Anyway, here it is, for whatever it's worth...

[iiipopes]

4002 pickup locations are the same as a Fender Jazz.

Roughly. The bridge pickup can't get exactly to the position due to the bridge frame and pickguard cutout, and the entire scale length is, of course, different (33 1/4 opposed to 34), so there is a little bit of offset from the re-proportioning, so that the neck pickup is just a hair farther from the neck and closer to the bridge.

[cjj]

I'll also add that the Jazz pickup positions were not measured by me, I just found the info on the web so I can't verify that it's correct. The same goes for a lot of the RIC measurements, a few I measured on my basses, the rest are just what people sent me...

[teeder]

Interesting! I don't remember this thread.

Can you add a P-bass in there?

[cjj]

Sure, do you have measurements? I can probably find it on the web, but it's always best to have an actual measurement...

[cjj]

OK, according to the web, a P-bass has the pickup at 28 5/8 inches from the nut. So, scaling to a 33.25 inch scale length gives 5.256 inches from the bridge. Here's the plots with the P-Bass added. Interesting that it appears to line up with string nodes, where there's relatively little string movement...

[teeder]

This is from my '58 Reissue.

20th fret to center of magnets on E-A PU = 4-13/16
20th fret to center of magnets on D-G PU = 5-7/8

20th fret to center of Both = 5-3/8

[jps]

Are these measurements from the center of the pickups to the witness points of the bridge saddles? As to the latter, would that be the average distance of all the saddles?

[Isaac]

Ooh, Zombie Thread Alert! Wow, almost 7 years ago!

What can I say, I was looking through some old files and found the stuff on pickup placement and decided to do something I had been meaning to do since way back when this was a new thread - plot the pickup positions with respect to string vibrational nodes/anti-nodes.

Anyway, here it is, the first 5 harmonics of every fretted string position up to 21 frets along with the positions of pickups for a 4001 with the old 1/2 inch neck pickup spacing, 4001 with 1 inch, 4002, 2004 4004Cii, 2008 4004Cii, 4005, 60's Fender Jazz, 70's fender Jazz (Fender positions scaled to the Rick 33.25 inch scale), and the 4004LK.

Vibration nodes (where strings are essentially not moving) are the dots above the horizontal axis, pickup positions below. Bridge is on the left side.

For the most part, it seems the pickups are placed between nodes, where the strings have maximum vibration, but not in all cases. Anyway, here it is, for whatever it's worth...

Nodes.gif

I can't seem to read it. Neck to the right, bridge to the left? How to identify the nodes and antinodes?

I agree that this is probably the best way to identify pickup positions, the pickup's position relative to the harmonics is likely to be much more indicative of its sound than its position in inches from, say, the 20th fret, especially when different scale lengths are involved.

I wonder about your statement that "it seems the pickups are placed between nodes". The pickups on all of my 4001 and 4003 basses (all being of the 1" variety) are placed pretty much exactly on nodes of the open strings. The center of the neck pickup is right where the 24th fret would be if there were one, which is at the node of the 4th harmonic (that is, two octaves above the fundamental). The bridge pickup is at the node of the 8th harmonic (three octaves). Of course, this takes them off of the nodes for the third, fifth and sixth harmonics, and puts the bridge pickup directly on the antinode of the 4th. It gets complicated quickly, and that's without taking into account what happens when we actually fret a note!