Electronics questions on new 4003 (hum and ric-o-sound)

[abubrooklyn]

Hi,

This spring I purchased a late-2016 Rickenbacker 4003 . I love the thing but I have some questions about/issues with the performance of the bass' electronics.

1) The hum is insane. To the point that the sustain is overcome by hum if I use any gainy effects pedals. I have settled on replacing the stock pickups most likely with Rickenbacker HB1s (both neck and bridge). But I am worried about getting new pickups before I figure out what to do about my ric-o-sound problem.

2) It doesn't sound like there is any signal separation in Ric-O-Sound with the pickup selector in the middle position. When I asked Rickenbacker about this, I was told that signal bleed is to be expected. So what should I be expecting from ROS in terms of signal separation?

I thought the stereo output of a Rick can/will send each pick up through its own half of the stereo output signal. The pickup selector in neck or bridge positions sends neck or bridge through both left and right, as expected. But in the middle position it sends both neck and bridge pickups at the same time through both left and right channels - there is no difference between the two sides of the stereo signal.

I did some experimenting to see what happens with ROS:

• -a stereo TRS cable plugged into ROS with the 2 mono ends are into separate mixer channels.
  -One channel is panned 100% right, the other 100% left
  -with pickup selector in middle position and both volumes and tones at 100%, I should hear the bridge pickup in one ear and neck pickup in the other, correct? I am hearing the exact same thing in both ears.
  -selector in middle position with neck volume and tone at 0% & bridge at 100% -> I hear only the bridge pickup but in both left and right channels at equal volumes.
  -selector still in middle position with neck volume and tone at 100% and bridge at 0% -> I hear only neck pickup in both channels at equal volumes.
  -selector in neck position with neck pickup volume and tone at 0% = I hear nothing (makes sense)
  -selector in neck position with neck pickup and tone at 100% = I hear bass in both channels (also makes sense)
  -selector in bridge position with bridge volume and tone at 0% = hear nothing (makes sense)
  -selector in bridge position with bridge volume and tone at 100% = I hear bridge pickup in both channels (also makes sense)

[/list]

I have tried this with a few different stereo cables, so I don't think think is a question of poor quality cables.

Does anyone have advice on solutions for these two issues? Will a new harness achieve better signal separation between the signals or are my expectations too high for ROS?

Would love to get some input! I love my bass and I want it to be perfect!

(edited for clarity)

[aceonbass]

The ROS (stereo) output doesn't separate treble from bass frequencies. It separates the treble (bridge) pickup signal from the bass (neck) pickup signal. There really isn't much signal bleed because the bass is actually wired in stereo with a mono shorting jack that shunts both pickups together.

[abubrooklyn]

The ROS (stereo) output doesn't separate treble from bass frequencies. It separates the treble (bridge) pickup signal from the bass (neck) pickup signal. There really isn't much signal bleed because the bass is actually wired in stereo with a mono shorting jack that shunts both pickups together.

Oh I didn't meant to imply frequencies. I meant, as you said, the signals from each pickup. There is not separation of the pickup signals in stereo. Both pickups come through both sides of the stereo output.

[aceonbass]

In that case, there IS a problem in the wiring, or it can be as simple as the mono jack binding in the channel it sits in, causing a short. I wish RIC would either do away with ROS altogether, or use a pair of stereo jacks in parallel and a push-pull pot that switches from mono to stereo, an option I came up with some time ago. The Switchcraft mono switching jack RIC uses often binds up when a plug is inserted, but mono and stereo jacks fit just fine, and you don't have to worry about which one to plug into in to on a dark stage.

[abubrooklyn]

In that case, there IS a problem in the wiring, or it can be as simple as the mono jack binding in the channel it sits in, causing a short. I wish RIC would either do away with ROS altogether, or use a pair of stereo jacks in parallel and a push-pull pot that switches from mono to stereo, an option I came up with some time ago. The Switchcraft mono switching jack RIC uses often binds up when a plug is inserted, but mono and stereo jacks fit just fine, and you don't have to worry about which one to plug into in to on a dark stage.

Thanks for your help with this!

I guess the next decision is whether to pursue a warranty claim or to just go ahead and get the electronics fixed/overhauled myself. The pickups need replacing anyway...

Once, I acquire some HB1s, I'll probably be in touch about a harness.

[lumgimfong]

I just recently replaced all my 2016 4003 electronics (due to the noise) with:

HB1's in neck and bridge.

New CTS 500k pots and .022uf orange drop cap harness with one mono jack, one dummy jack, and now I have a one volume, one selector, one tone control setup.

Sounds just like it did before but with no noise. Dead quiet and the HB1 in the neck position blows away the hi-gain neck pup.

My bass sounded like someone on the telephone before, now it sounds like you are talking in person. Much better.
Here is a pic. Sorry about the dim lighting:

[lumgimfong]

[abubrooklyn]

I just recently replaced all my 2016 4003 electronics (due to the noise) with:

HB1's in neck and bridge.

New CTS 500k pots and .022uf orange drop cap harness with one mono jack, one dummy jack, and now I have a one volume, one selector, one tone control setup.

Sounds just like it did before but with no noise. Dead quiet and the HB1 in the neck position blows away the hi-gain neck pup.

My bass sounded like someone on the telephone before, now it sounds like you are talking in person. Much better.
Here is a pic. Sorry about the dim lighting:

I just ordered a new harness from Dane and the HB1s from Rickenbacker. I'll be preserving the ROS and the vintage switch however - I'm a sucker for overly complicated gear. I can't wait to hear how my bass ends up sounding after all of this.

You bass looks cool! How'd you feel about voiding the warranty?

[lumgimfong]

If it turns out like mine you will be very happy.
My 4003 was the best bass I ever played even before the mods. Now it sounds so much better.

I like simple controls, having played two control Pbass and Starfire basses my whole career. So I figured that I might as well simplify and go to two controls while I did this. New pickguard by WD.

When I first got the bass I was worried about doing things to void the warranty, even just changing the strings.
But then I realized the bass is made well by a reputable company, and only 4 more years left anyway on the warranty, and I felt confident that nothing would go wrong in that time with the bass, which probably only can have warranty service to non-electronic parts at this point, if at all.
So I knew it was a risk, but I had to do something about the single coil noise, and no shielding helped. So I did the mod.

As for electronics, my friend (Doug Lewis, Fair Repair) has been a pro tech for decades and has taken care of my basses for years. He also switched out all the electronics on my Blue Flower Pbass, too, so I figured this would be easy.

Like I said, my 4003 is the best bass I ever played. Looks great, sounds great, plays great, comfortable. But I think for my next Ric (if I ever get one) I will get a two control model with humbuckers like the 4004. Preferably blue burst, of they ever put that out again.

Post back and let us know how your mod goes!
I'll have to get some better pics of the front, but here is what the back of mine looks like.

[JWR]

My e!ectronic challenged bass was a factory new 2014 4003. Love the way it plays, but very frustrating, low output, more muddy, neck pu occasionally shorted, output jack occasionally shorted. I bought one of Danes harnesses and a second pickguard so I could swap. Measurable improvement.

[abubrooklyn]

My e!ectronic challenged bass was a factory new 2014 4003. Love the way it plays, but very frustrating, low output, more muddy, neck pu occasionally shorted, output jack occasionally shorted. I bought one of Danes harnesses and a second pickguard so I could swap. Measurable improvement.

I'm in the process of finalizing this electronics overhaul, got one of Dane's harnesses installed along with humbuckers to solve the noise problem. The project has some final nuts and bolts to deal with but I'm already loving the change in the bass' sound.

[ram]

you can also have Dane wire it so you can tap the pickups' coils..... you will have jaut about ALL of the posibilities.

[JWR]

I went back to the original harness after finding the issue with the neck pickup intermittent shorting. I also cut the grommets in half and I get just a bit more height. I also removed an after market treble bezel hole cover and that little height difference also seemed beneficial. Chronic tinkering syndrome.

[jps]

My e!ectronic challenged bass was a factory new 2014 4003. Love the way it plays, but very frustrating, low output, more muddy, neck pu occasionally shorted, output jack occasionally shorted. I bought one of Danes harnesses and a second pickguard so I could swap. Measurable improvement.

I went back to the original harness after finding the issue with the neck pickup intermittent shorting. I also cut the grommets in half and I get just a bit more height. I also removed an after market treble bezel hole cover and that little height difference also seemed beneficial. Chronic tinkering syndrome.

I am having a similar issue so I need to replace the switch on the custom harness. Both my pickups are intermittent, however the rest of Dane's harness is fine (although, the pots don't seem any different in function or appearance to the stock RIC pots); I already got the replacement switch to go in, but have been considering some other ways to wire it up so I have not done so yet.

[aceonbass]

Although the pots I use are CTS, same manufacturer as those used by RIC, the similarity ends there. RIC uses pots with an advertised rating of 330K, they can actually measure anywhere from 260K to nearly 400K. I use CTS pots that are more expensive, and within 10% of their advertised specs of either 500K or 250K. I also measure and mark every pot I use with its actual measured spec, and use them in matched sets within 1% of each other. Pots of different ratings have an audible effect on the tone of a guitar that most people seem to be able to hear. When I build a harness, it can take anywhere from one to two hours depending on the application and requirements, and when completed, I test each harness with a multimeter for continuity between connections, and to make sure the pots still measure what they did when I stocked them. Occasionally a harness has had a defect once installed, and I've stood behind my work, even when it was a problem caused by the installation. Unfortunately there a have been a couple of customers who've had a problem with a harness that was never brought to my attention until after being discussed publicly. I've built hundreds of custom wiring harnesses (yes, custom because they are each built one at a time for each client), and I still stand behind each one, and often take calls from the customer or guitar tech doing the installation.