Truss rod length

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Truss rod length

Postby (Laits) » Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:22 am

I have a 2018 4003s and am trying to get the neck relief set correctly. By the time I get a proper .005 or so relief on the e string the g string has no relief at all. Is this a twisted neck that needs warranty repair or am I doing something wrong. I have many guitars and basses and am pretty proficient at doing my own setups. I also noticed now that one of the truss rods looks longer than the other. Is this normal or does it mean the truss rod is sinking into the wood on the body side. I thought that this was no longer an issue when the truss rods were cnc cut.
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Re: Truss rod length

Postby (ilan) » Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:03 am

Yes, it's twisted. Evidently someone tried to correct it by loosening the rod on the G string side. And no, it's not normal, anyway not on a 2018 bass.
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Re: Truss rod length

Postby (Laits) » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:20 pm

I am the original owner. I adjusted the truss rod as per instructions on this forum. I adjusted them both equally at first, let it set and found the bass side needed more straightening. I tightened that side, found it affected the treble side so relieved that side. I believe that a loose (ie, negligible tension) on the treble side is not out of the ordinary. I have come to rest at .006 on the bass side and .003 on the treble side. Is a .003 difference within "normal" specs?
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Re: Truss rod length

Postby (iiipopes) » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:35 am

With all due respect to Ilan, and having played, owned, and helped friends set up Rickenbacker basses since 1981, so I have dealt with both the old and new truss rods, yes, the instructions in the manual specify a totally straight (no relief) setting. But anything in the area of the numbers mentioned is acceptable. I also have a couple more thou on the E side than G side to allow for string excursion when I "dig in." I would caution against a totally slack rod, because it can cause rattles and the nut could work loose.
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Re: Truss rod length

Postby (Gilmourisgod) » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:57 pm

If it's twisted, you should be able to see it pretty clearly sighting down the neck from the headstock end. Look to see if the Nut (in the foreground) looks essentially parallel to last fret (in the background). Or look up "winding sticks", just a two short pieces of straight scrap wood, one on the headstock side of the nut, one at the last fret. Sight along them from a distance, do they look Parallel? If it's anything more than a miniscule twist, the rods won't cure it. I assume you mailed in that warranty card? They are sticklers for that piece of paper, and you will have to eat shipping one way to California regardless. Welcome to Ric CS.
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Re: Truss rod length

Postby (Dirk) » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:27 am

I have no experience with the new style truss rods.

On the old system it's very easy to move each side independently up and down the truss rod route.
What that pictures shows is the right side rod is pulled down toward the body, and a rod that loose is a big problem.

If it were me I'd start from scratch with a complete setup, I'd remove both nuts and make sure both rods are at the same position to start with in the truss rod channel. Then you start the "normal" adjustment procedure.

Also remember your bridge can help getting things just right, but that's also part of the proper adjustment procedure.

Or if you're aren't up to the challenge sending it back to the mothership seems to make the most sense.

Good luck,
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Re: Truss rod length

Postby (maxwell) » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:00 pm

I've been interested in twists in necks for a long time, since I just happened to look down the length of my Model 1996 and about had a heart attack from the twist I discovered. Anyway, there are several pertinent posts over on the RIC website, and while there isn't much activity there now (since Mr. John Hall retired), it is a great repository of information. Here are a few links that, if you have time to read them, can be informative. The first concerns a bass:

Two well-known and highly regarded responders to the OP's thread:
http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/viewt ... ilit=twist

Here's a thread that I killed, or maybe the OP just gave up:
http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/viewt ... ilit=twist

Here's my OP thread after my twisted discovery:
http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/viewt ... ilit=twist
…. If you go down to the fourth post, by cjj, you'll see a link to a photo of a bass guitar that is manufactured purposely with a twist. I'll re-post the photo link here: http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/downl ... php?id=163

Not surprisingly, I'd suggest to not worry about the twist. Now, the uneven truss rods are another matter. As you might have read in the first thread I linked, some unevenness might be expected. Yours seem somewhat greater than what I'd expect. When this happened to me, I discovered that one rod, at the body end of the guitar, did indeed "crush" into the body wood. The fix for this, as Mr. Hall suggested back then, and was recommended somewhere here a few weeks ago, is to saturate that crushed area with super glue. I did this, and then, because the unevenness bugged me, I put a small washer (had to customize one) at that end to relocate the "long" truss rod back down again. I forget, but I'm sure I placed super glue on the unaffected wood also as a preventive measure. Anyway, using the super glue technique will allow you to continue adjusting without further crushing the wood and thus increasing the discrepancy of rod lengths. Yes, it will be a PITA to do. Take your time so you don't scratch or gouge the body. Relax and make it a fun thing to do.
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Re: Truss rod length

Postby (Dirk) » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:06 pm

Being unknown and completely disregarded (LOL), I have to disagree with looking down the neck from the headstock.
For me it's always been more accurate to look from the body end of the neck, but to each his or her own.
I do that for guitars and basses with truss rods adjusting at either end.

So that leads me to a question, are modern dual truss rods attached to each other somehow?

Like I said before I only have dealt with old style 4001's and early 4003's. And if they are truly independent you could use the old techniques with clamping the neck into place to help with your adjustments.

Good luck,
Dirk
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Re: Truss rod length

Postby (jps) » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:13 pm

Dirk wrote:...For me it's always been more accurate to look from the body end of the neck, but to each his or her own.
I do that for guitars and basses with truss rods adjusting at either end.

Same here. I hold the instrument in playing orientation to make sure that gravity (and, its opposite, comedy) has no affect on anything.
Dirk wrote:So that leads me to a question, are modern dual truss rods attached to each other somehow?
No, they are not; each one it totally independent, outside of any affect the neck, itself, may impose on them.
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Re: Truss rod length

Postby (Dirk) » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:57 am

Thanks for the confirmation Jeffrey, so my previous suggestion would hold.
Interesting concept to do it in playing position, how then are you able to clamp the neck like on vintage Rick's setup.
And what is the opposite of gravity? Dark matter? LOL
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Re: Truss rod length

Postby (jps) » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:35 pm

Dirk wrote:Thanks for the confirmation Jeffrey, so my previous suggestion would hold.
Interesting concept to do it in playing position, how then are you able to clamp the neck like on vintage Rick's setup.
And what is the opposite of gravity? Dark matter? LOL

The playing position thing is just for sighting down the neck to check on relief, not for making any actual adjustments.

As to the opposite of gravity, become a fan of Firesign Theatre and become enlightened. :mrgreen:
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Re: Truss rod length

Postby (admin) » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:46 pm

Or try this musical comment on Gravity.

Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm

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Re: Truss rod length

Postby (iiipopes) » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:09 pm

If the twist is unplayable, it is a twist. If the twist is playable, it is a helix:
https://www.facebook.com/Helix-Neck-Sys ... 301402132/
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Re: Truss rod length

Postby (Laits) » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:23 pm

Here are some pics from the headstock.
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Re: Truss rod length

Postby (maxwell) » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:39 pm

Hmmm, those photos look familiar... :wink: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=416234
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