When was horsehoe pickup discontinued on 1960s' 4001 basses?

[FretlessOnly]

The type of inlays might help to narrow this down a bit, but given the variability in features (a really charming, informal thing, I might add, very sincerely), you may not do any better than Dec '72 or April '73. I will say that my Dec '72 has the gorgeous, sparkly inlays that are almost worth the price I paid for it. When I took it to Jim Mouradian to have a proper period-correct bridge pickup and surround put into it (he has an early '73), we were discussing it and he just looked a those inlays and said "you know, these things play great, but it those inlays you paid for."

Actually, now that I think about it, there is indeed a very good test you can use to figure late '72 vs. early '73: measure the lower bout of the bass body at it's widest point. This basically is at the location of the tailpiece mute. Find the widest point of the body and report back. There is at least a 1/4" difference between my Dec '72 and my April '73. In the interst of science, I ain't gonna tell you which is which, but it's distinctly different (I'll bet you can guess, however...).

[DavyR]

We seem to have it narrowed down enough. My memory says sparkly inlays so maybe it was a late '72. I can't tell from the pics, however. Not sure HOW I came up with 1968! Thanks again for all the info. To be continued with the pics posted.

[s4001]

Yeah, you can easily see the shedua strip or the walnut headstock wings through the FG, the bass would have had one or the other, this will help pin down if it were made before or after around late '72-early '73.

Mine is august 68 and had a higain, and a thumbrest.

[wints]

Mine is august 68 and had a higain, and a thumbrest.

That's the earliest I can recall with the hi gain. Jeff R's Sept '68 had a horseshoe, so from this point it really becomes YMMV until early '69 at least.

[fran4001]

My Jan. '69 had the green higain.

[DavyR]

My Jan. '69 had the green higain.

Were the non-horseshoe green bridge pickups high-gain?

[jps]

My Jan. '69 had the green higain.

Were the non-horseshoe green bridge pickups high-gain?

Right. If it is not a HS PU it is a high-gain.

[DavyR]

Help me out here...

So ANY bridge pickup that is not a HS is a high gain?
Other than 1960s' basses and before, does this include the later HS that was develped for the V63?

Also, as far as neck pickups, are all toasters low-gain?

And, did RIC, therefore, mix low-gain neck pickup toasters with high-gain bridge pickup non-HS in basses like the C64?

[jps]

The RI HS pickups are actually more like toasters than hi-gain pickups as they have magnet slugs for the pole pieces just as toasters do. So, in a way, they are their own type of pickup. Vintage toasters are in a sense "low-gain" (compared to hi-gains, I think of toasters as the "standard reference" output) as they are not wound anywhere near what hi-gains are wound like, except for the earlier RI toasters that were wound pretty hot, until RIC introduced the 7.4KΩ scatterwound toasters, which are back down into vintage territory, although '60s toasters were usually even lower in winding count and, therefore, output.

Want some more commas!

Hi-gain pickups have a rubberized ceramic magnet that sits below the bobbin, a major construction difference to both horseshoe pickups or toasters, which also have magnet slugs for pole pieces. To muddy the waters a bit, very early hi-gain pickups have a much smaller magnet than the later ones, making them lower in output than the large magnet versions. Rickenbacker did combine toasters and hi-gains,starting around the '68-'69 time frame. and also on such instruments as their 5 and 8 string basses.

Here is my March '73 4001 with a "low-gain" toaster and a hi-gain bridge pickup. Note the large magnet under the hi-gain's bobbin.

[johnallg]

I think I'd also say the 70s-early 80s higains (8.4k) were actually midgains.

[jps]

I think I'd also say the 70s-early 80s higains (8.4k) were actually midgains.

Oh goody, we can confuse him, even more!

[DavyR]

I got it all as clear as a bell. NOT! (I'm going back to my Hofners! ;^)

[jps]

I got it all as clear as a bell. NOT! (I'm going back to my Hofners! ;^)

The simple description is that from '60s toaster>late '60s hi-gain>mid '70s hi-gain>'80s/'90s/early '00s/current hi-gains the pickups got hotter and hotter........... except for the RI toasters up to around 2000, when they became more in line with '70s toasters output-wise.

[jps]

I got it all as clear as a bell. NOT! (I'm going back to my Hofners! ;^)

Have you read up on Höfner pickups?

[DavyR]

I got it all as clear as a bell. NOT! (I'm going back to my Hofners! ;^)

Have you read up on Höfner pickups?

Thanks! Yeah, I've seen this. My Hofners' pickups are all around 3.7K ohms and all "sound" hot. They clip my GK amps depending on my pick attack. With my Hofners I favor the neck pickup usually rolling back the bridge pickup some if not nearly all the way. IMO, my two old RICs NEED the bridge pickup and without the cap.