Grover replacement?

[GoldenGloryOrn]

Yup, Noob here. Hello.

Got a '73 4000 that needs some TLC. Bought it for about £100 maybe 20 years ago and now I'm finally going to do something with it. Biggest problem is the A Grover (wavy, of course) blew up before I bought it. Second biggest problem is I had a tatty-looking but mechanically sound spare set when I bought it. Now I live on a different continent ... can I find them? (Er ... no.)

So, the big question is, which replacement tuners are the easiest to fit? I really don't mind about the screw holes round the back, but would rather not have to ream out the post holes.

If anyone's interested, I think it may end up Jim Reeves blue ...

[woodyng]

I don't have the technical answers to your query,but there are plenty of people here who will. Welcome! I have a '74 4000 myself. Is yours set-neck? Is there 2nd pickup routing under the pickguard,errr,scratchplate? My bass had nickle Kluson keys on it when i purchased it 10 years ago,i thought they were original until i decided to replace them,at which point i discovered the bass originally had the "small box" Grovers on them. If you decide to go with a kluson or Hipshot key set,the grover footprint will be completely covered on the rear of the headstock. Not sure about whether you would need to bore out larger holes. (I didn't need to).
By the way,the light blue(boy) color sounds great,and would look killer with gold plastic!

[Kopfjaeger]

OK, I measured the od of a Wavy Grover ferule and the od of a small early metal Kluson ferule. Here is what I have .510 is the Grover and .450 for the Kluson. Now, does the later plastic Kluson have a bigger od? I do not know. I'd doubt it. I think the Schaller m4 is .5 or so and very forgiving since the ferule screws onto the tuner shaft. The m4 will not cover any of the tuner holes you have from your Grovers. Sorry, but I'm not pulling the tuner off my 2011 4003 to check the ferule diameter. Maybe someone else has that measurement.

I do like Grover tuners. I know, call me a glutton for punishment! I like the way they look and feel. They do pop up quite regularly on eBay, so if you are patient, you will have a set in a few months.

As you all my remember, my 1965 4001 had a set of m4's installed. I wanted to go back to the correct Klusons but the damn ferule holes were all reamed out to accept the m4's. I shaved a piece of 3/4 maple with a block plane and glued the shavings into the holes to reduce their diameter. I then had to resize the holes for the Klusons. it worked out very well but it was quite labor intensive. my point it, anything is possible if you want it but If I were you, I'd hold out for a set of Wavy Grovers.

My zwei phenning!

Sepp

[johnallg]

Welcome Mark. If you have all the parts of the exploded Grover, you can fix it fairly easily. There have been numerous posts on how to reswag the little pins holding the cover on the tuner over the years. If you search, you will find more than you probably want to know on the process. Keeping the old wavy Grovers on your '73 would be really sweet. Got any pictures of your bass?

[GoldenGloryOrn]

I don't have the technical answers to your query,but there are plenty of people here who will. Welcome! I have a '74 4000 myself. Is yours set-neck? Is there 2nd pickup routing under the pickguard,errr,scratchplate? My bass had nickle Kluson keys on it when i purchased it 10 years ago,i thought they were original until i decided to replace them,at which point i discovered the bass originally had the "small box" Grovers on them. If you decide to go with a kluson or Hipshot key set,the grover footprint will be completely covered on the rear of the headstock. Not sure about whether you would need to bore out larger holes. (I didn't need to).
By the way,the light blue(boy) color sounds great,and would look killer with gold plastic!

Yes, glued in neck ... er, and I lied. It's a May '74. (It's been far too hot for the last couple of weeks, and I got my Rics confused )

Hmmm, I've never seen (real or photo) a 4000 converted to a 4001. I suppose they might exist somewhere, but my 4000s are all unsullied by holes near the neck

I'm really just after some machines I can put on now to get it going without having to ream out the post holes so if I can find some Grovers sometime in the future they'll just drop in.

At the moment it's a toss-up between Blueboy and blue or pink paisley ... it's got a very dark fingerboard, and I do like the look of a Fender in Sonic Blue with a dark fingerboard. But then I think of paisley.

[GoldenGloryOrn]

OK, I measured the od of a Wavy Grover ferule and the od of a small early metal Kluson ferule. Here is what I have .510 is the Grover and .450 for the Kluson. Now, does the later plastic Kluson have a bigger od? I do not know. I'd doubt it. I think the Schaller m4 is .5 or so and very forgiving since the ferule screws onto the tuner shaft. The m4 will not cover any of the tuner holes you have from your Grovers. Sorry, but I'm not pulling the tuner off my 2011 4003 to check the ferule diameter. Maybe someone else has that measurement.

I do like Grover tuners. I know, call me a glutton for punishment! I like the way they look and feel. They do pop up quite regularly on eBay, so if you are patient, you will have a set in a few months.

As you all my remember, my 1965 4001 had a set of m4's installed. I wanted to go back to the correct Klusons but the damn ferule holes were all reamed out to accept the m4's. I shaved a piece of 3/4 maple with a block plane and glued the shavings into the holes to reduce their diameter. I then had to resize the holes for the Klusons. it worked out very well but it was quite labor intensive. my point it, anything is possible if you want it but If I were you, I'd hold out for a set of Wavy Grovers.

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My zwei phenning!

Sepp

Thanks. I'd put the Schallers on in a heartbeat if I could buy them here. Yes, I know I could mail order them, but knowing my luck, customs would decide to charge me twice their value.

I don't really want to wait for eBay. Been looking for weeks and seen nothing. This bass has sat doing nothing for almost 20 years ... I just want to play it! In fact, I only plugged it in for the first time a couple of weeks ago for the first time. It works! Sounds pretty good, too, if you don't mind a three-string

[GoldenGloryOrn]

Welcome Mark. If you have all the parts of the exploded Grover, you can fix it fairly easily. There have been numerous posts on how to reswag the little pins holding the cover on the tuner over the years. If you search, you will find more than you probably want to know on the process. Keeping the old wavy Grovers on your '73 would be really sweet. Got any pictures of your bass?

Thanks.

No, just the ferrule and the bit that's left behind screwed to the headstock after the machine head blew up!

It would be nice to do a perfect (mechanical) restoration, but if I can't find the Grovers, I really don't mind putting on some Hipshots, or anything that looks "right".

Pics ...

Yes, plenty. It's just told me only 800 pixels wide.

Did that.

Now it's saying only 800 pixels high.

Decent s/w and admins would say both at the same time.

I'm off to have me dinner and will re-re-size the pics and post later ...

[GoldenGloryOrn]

Here we go ... no, we don't.

Three images 800x600 pixels. All it says is "Your images may only be up to 800 pixels high."

OK, good trick for noobs. How do you actually post an image? Is their a size limitation?

[GoldenGloryOrn]

I see, 600x400 seems to work. Good gag!

Anyway, here's some pics.

Yes, Grovers would be best. But I'd rather get on with it than wait much longer ...

[woodyng]

Yes, https://www.facebook.com/gale.steelman/ ... 53052glued in neck ... er, and I lied. It's a May '74. (It's been far too hot for the last couple of weeks, and I got my Rics confused )
At the moment it's a toss-up between Blueboy and blue or pink paisley ... it's got a very dark fingerboard, and I do like the look of a Fender in Sonic Blue with a dark fingerboard. But then I think of paisley.

So,your 4000 is approaching its 40th birthday! Mine is December 74. Thinking of Paisley,huh? I like thinking outside of the box,and seeing Ricks refinned in non-standard colors,although i never was a fan of the paisley Fenders. I used to think if i were going to refinish mine,i would be looking at doing it in that Fender Salmon/Coral color. The company made some set-neck 4001-s models,so occasionally you might run across a 4000 from the same period that had been routed for that neck pickup. Mine wasn't,for which i am grateful,it seems to have a very strong bond between neck and body.

Personally i like the beat-up mojo of your jetglo,my bass is white that's faded to a cream color,and it has a lot of chips and dings,too. I just used it at practice again last night,and it is a beast.

[GoldenGloryOrn]

Leaving it beat up?

Hmmm ... maybe I'll look at that after I've got four machines on my head. Seems like a bit of a wasted Blueboy opportunity to me at the moment.

[wings012345]

I had the same problem with 2 of my grovers. Went to Home Depot and bought expoxy glue. Kind you mix 3200psi. Glued them and the are holding 2 years straight. And I use and play it out daily. No signs of it budging

[GoldenGloryOrn]

If only I had the missing pieces ...

[antipodean]

Found these Korean sealed tuners at a UK distributer. The dimensions look to be rather similar to the wavy Grovers, including the footprint and screw hole pattern. The look is less than stellar, however, particularly the elephant ear paddle. Not cheap either...

[prowla]

Whereabouts are you located, OP?

If I were replacing the Grovers, I would likely go for Ric's own open tuners; they are not too expensive (£75 UK).

I also have Wilkinson & Warwick Schaller-style closed ones with the fishtail ends and Schaller open-backed ones with cloverleaf ends; but they all use a wider hole than Ric's.

You might also consider, if you do replace the Grovers, possibly recouping your costs by selling them on (I recently missed out on a set for £50).