Lets talk about horseys

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Re: Lets talk about horseys

Postby (Kopfjaeger) » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:00 pm

squirebass wrote:Sepp, does Sergio do horseshoes, or just rewinding? I haven't really talked with him since the days when we both had 21 fretters! I love the tone on those old horseys, but it seems like Squire was the only one able to get one that worked like a charm.. The 4003 bass in question is a 2009 model,so its got adjustable polepieces, wide inlays, pull up tone knob for the .47 capacitor, plus its just a really nicely made bass -- neck is a little bit chunky, but if she had checker binding, why I just might marry her!!! :oops: :lol: :oops:


Gene,

Snow White was xsubs bass that he kitted out to be like a mid/late 60's 4001. Paul Boyer purchased her, and I purchased her from Paul. From what Paul told me and the Snow White thread, when xsubs was having her modded, Sergio either built the bobbin from scratch or un wound a RIC bobbin to 60's specks. I'm sure I have the values archived somewhere of what she actually was. I'm not knocking Sergio's work, far from it, but there are guys here in the states that can build you a 60's spec bobbin. All you'll need is shoes for her and you have yourself a horsie. I don't know what Sergio charges. Guys here in the states that can do it and have extensive Rickenbacker knowledge are Tom Brantley, Jason Lollar, and Classic Amplification. The bobbin height needs to be 3/8 tall max, in order to get the proper adjustment without being too tight. Mark Walker also built me a freaking awesome raised lip bobbin from a 6 pole lapsteel that is nearly undetectable from an original. That pup is killer on my 1965 4001. You can drop Mark an email to see if he can still wind you one but you will need to supply him with a donor bobbin.

Sepp
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1973 4001 Burgundyglo
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Re: Lets talk about horseys

Postby (superheavydeathmetal) » Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:32 am

squirebass wrote:Well, then the tone you are getting is what I'm interested in, metal. My v63 used to get well past halfway down the road to that tone, but it didn't nail it like a real horsey, and it didn't have the Dane harness or cap... You have exactly what I'm considering for my 4003 right down to the stereo jack. Please tell more about it!

Do you mean you want to hear me prattle on and on about my awesome Rickenbacker bass tone?! If you were a woman, I would marry you!

I have a 2002 4001V63 with stock pickups. It went from sitting under my bed in the case to overtaking my '86 4003 as being my favorite bass when I put a Dane harness in it. The harness has the C3 .0047ųf cap push/pull switch (I leave the it in the "pulled" position, meaning the capacitor is engaged) with, most importantly, a stereo jack. I don't know what values he used for the volume and tone pots, but both volume pots are full on. The tone pots are at 9 o'clock, supposing 12 o'clock is full on. Meaning, if you are playing the bass and looking towards the floor is 100% on, rotate them 90 degrees.

I use Rotosound Swing '66 45s.

You will need a stereo to mono Y cable, a Line 6 Bass Pod XT, and a Line 6 Pod X3. These are legacy products now, so the can be had pretty cheap.

Set your Line 6 Bass Pod XT to the following settings:
Amp: Amp 12: Rock Classic
EQ (controlled by knobs on front):
•Output: 8
•Drive: 2
•Bass: 6
•Lo: 7
•Hi: 10
•Treb: 9
•Chan Vol: 5 (7 for Toaster)
Compress: 0
Cab: Cab 22: 8x10 Classic
Mic: Mic 2: Tube 47 Far
Room: 0%
6-band EQ:
•Gain +3.0, Freq 75
•Gain Flat, Freq 155
•Gain Flat, Freq 185
•Gain +10.2, Freq 300
•Gain +12.6, Freq 1.6k
•Gain +12.6, Freq 2.2k
Config: Pre
Stomp:
•Model: Classic Dist
•Drive: 10%
•Gain: 49%
•Tone: 95%
Mod: Off
Delay/Verb: Off
Wah: Off
Volume: Volume, Post (I don't think this matters)
FX Tweak: Stomp Tone (I don't think this matters)
Tempo: (Any value; it doesn't matter)
Gate: Off
D.I. Settings: Off

Step 2: Set your Line 6 Pod X3 to the following settings:
Gate: Off
Wah: Off
Stomp:
•Distortion: Classic Distortion
•Drive: 20%
•Gain: 29%
•Tone: 100%
Mod: Sine Chorus
•Speed: 0.16Hz
•Tap: Off
•Tempo: 118.0 BPM
•Mix: 51%
•Depth: 19%
•Bass: 50%
•Treble: 79%
•Config: PRE
Amp: 1968 Plexi Jump Lead
•Byp Vol: 56%
•Room 0%
Cab: 4x12 78 Brit Celest T-75's
Mic: 421 Dynamic Mic
Amp Eq (controlled by knobs on front. After selecting amp, cab and mic, press right arrow on directional pad to see % values):
•Drive: 79%
•Bass: 65%
•Middle: 0%
•Treble: 100%
•Presence: 77%
•Reverb: 0%
•Tone Volume: 55%
•Master Volume: 50%
COMP: Off
EQ:
•Lo Gn: +12.6dB
•Lm Gn: +12.6dB
•Hm Gn: +12.6dB
•Hi Gn: +12.6dB
•Lo Fq: 555
•Lm Fq: 1.10k
•Hm Fq: 1.65k
•Hi Fq: 2.15k
Vol:
•Min: 0%
•Max: 100%
•Config: Post
Delay: Off
Verb: Off

Connect the red mono end of the stereo cable (or adapter) to Input 1 of the Bass Pod XT. If neither mono end is colored red, it will be marked "R" or "Right" or "Ring". Plug the other mono end, which should be colored white or black, or marked "T" or "Tip" or "L" or "Left" into the input of the Pod X3. Plug the stereo end of your stereo-to-mono-y cable into the "Rick-o-Sound" jack of the Rickenbacker bass.

I run the two outputs into a mixer with equal volume and no extra equalization, and listen through headphones. Amplifiers are not conducive to single-bedroom apartments :lol:. So, if you use an amp, some EQ tweaking may be necessary.

If you really want to get down to the knitty-gritty, I use extra-heavy picks, and I pick just behind the bridge pickip cover. I favor the A string from frets 0 to 9 and the D string from frets 5 to 9, but not if it makes a passage more difficult to play.

Here are some bits of songs I have recorded if you would like to hear this setup in action. I have myself panned to one channel, and the actual recording to another:

Classic - Yours is no Disgrace:
https://soundcloud.com/conley-flake/you ... o-disgrace

A little more modern: - Bulls on Parade by Rage Against the Machine:
https://soundcloud.com/conley-flake/bulls-on-parade

I have a few others (Thunder Kiss '65, Freewill etc.) but I am having trouble getting them uploaded because of copyrights or something. Let me know if you have any other questions! And I am always glad to hear comments and feedback from anyone! The pursuit of perfect tone never ends!
Gilmourisgod wrote:I never really "got" what a Rick is capable of until I ran it stereo a few times in my college band. We used to call it the "Piano of Doom". You get all the bottom and all the top in total a**kicking mode.
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Re: Lets talk about horseys

Postby (aceonbass) » Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:38 am

Conley.......For single coil harnesses, I use a pair of 500K CTS pots for tone, and a pair 250K pots for volume, in matched pairs. Oh, and I prefer Aceonbassworks harness to Dane harness... :wink:
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Re: Lets talk about horseys

Postby (Lefty4003S8) » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:33 pm

Conley,

I listened to your bass-clips. LOVE the sound/tone you're getting there!!!! That is THE Rickenbacker bass sound that drives me MAD!!!!!

Great Job!!!!!!!!! NICE choice of YES songs!!!!!!!
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Re: Lets talk about horseys

Postby (Kiddwad57) » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:58 pm

No pan knob, but it was simple to rip the jack out of the left channel. Great sound! Nice playing too.
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Re: Lets talk about horseys

Postby (Boogie) » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:28 pm

aceonbass wrote:The current RIC Toasters are about the same resistance as the originals from the 60's, so I'd think they sound the same.


Thanks, Dane.

So, the RIC Toaster RI and a Lollar HS would be a good match, for that '60s RM1999 vibe on the current 4003S (neck PU distance from end of fingerboard notwithstanding)?
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Re: Lets talk about horseys

Postby (aceonbass) » Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:55 pm

Ya, I'd think they would be a good match, but at $600 for the Lollar HS, not one I'd be able to justify with my ears. The next time I want a HS pickup in a bass, I'm getting a RIHS from RIC and having it underwound to 8K. I think that will get me most of the way there.
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Re: Lets talk about horseys

Postby (superheavydeathmetal) » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:19 am

Lefty4003S8 wrote:Conley,

I listened to your bass-clips. LOVE the sound/tone you're getting there!!!! That is THE Rickenbacker bass sound that drives me MAD!!!!!

Great Job!!!!!!!!! NICE choice of YES songs!!!!!!!

Thanks, Greg! Ricks rule!
Gilmourisgod wrote:I never really "got" what a Rick is capable of until I ran it stereo a few times in my college band. We used to call it the "Piano of Doom". You get all the bottom and all the top in total a**kicking mode.
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Re: Lets talk about horseys

Postby (woodyng) » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:56 pm

aceonbass wrote:Ya, I'd think they would be a good match, but at $600 for the Lollar HS, not one I'd be able to justify with my ears. The next time I want a HS pickup in a bass, I'm getting a RIHS from RIC and having it underwound to 8K. I think that will get me most of the way there.


Interesting idea,Dane!
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Re: Lets talk about horseys

Postby (superheavydeathmetal) » Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:37 pm

woodyng wrote:
aceonbass wrote:Ya, I'd think they would be a good match, but at $600 for the Lollar HS, not one I'd be able to justify with my ears. The next time I want a HS pickup in a bass, I'm getting a RIHS from RIC and having it underwound to 8K. I think that will get me most of the way there.


Interesting idea,Dane!

Yeah! To whom would one go to have this done?
Gilmourisgod wrote:I never really "got" what a Rick is capable of until I ran it stereo a few times in my college band. We used to call it the "Piano of Doom". You get all the bottom and all the top in total a**kicking mode.
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Re: Lets talk about horseys

Postby (squirebass) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:57 pm

Yeah, I'd like to know same thing about underwinding a horsey... Conley thanks for all that info, I did listen to your Yes sample and it sounds killer! I've been trying to get back to all this but sincr its the holiday season I've been so busy, thank you for taking the time to post this!!
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Re: Lets talk about horseys

Postby (aceonbass) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:16 pm

superheavydeathmetal wrote:
woodyng wrote:
aceonbass wrote:Ya, I'd think they would be a good match, but at $600 for the Lollar HS, not one I'd be able to justify with my ears. The next time I want a HS pickup in a bass, I'm getting a RIHS from RIC and having it underwound to 8K. I think that will get me most of the way there.


Interesting idea,Dane!

Yeah! To whom would one go to have this done?


I've got a friend locally who has a pickup winder, so I'll be hitting him up when I need this done. Otherwise Sergio or Tom Brantly could do it.
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Re: Lets talk about horseys

Postby (jps) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:42 pm

aceonbass wrote:I've got a friend locally who has a pickup winder, so I'll be hitting him up when I need this done. Otherwise Sergio or Tom Brantly could do it.

Please mention this in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=413560&view=unread#unread
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Re: Lets talk about horseys

Postby (Wiker) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:19 am

Underwinding a RIHS is simple. No need for a pickup winder. Measure the resistance, unwrap 500 rounds by hand, and measure resistance again to get an idea of how much resistance those 500 turns took off. The keep unwrapping turns until you reach the target resistance.
I can’t remember exactly, but I think a hot RIHS has about 7500 turns on it. A 7.4K scatter wound toaster has about 5500 turns (I counted them). On the RIHS bobbin 5500 tunes of AWG44 will be somewhere in the range of 8.0K-8.5K (if my estimates are correct).
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Re: Lets talk about horseys

Postby (squirebass) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:49 pm

I've always wondered this but pickups have always been a magical black box to me. So you take say, 2500 turns of wire off the coil, then measure with ohmmeter. Do you leave the wire unattached to the coil while you are measuring, and what does the end of the wire attach to when you are done?
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