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Re: Lets talk about horseys

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:30 pm
by jps
There are some other mods, too, as you can see that I did to that 4001V63. Eventually, I did put a '60s (rebuilt) magnetic HS PU in the bass, along with a mid '60s TRC as shown in the photos below (which I may be putting on another bass, some day):

4001V63-1200_9082.jpg
Copyright © Jeffrey P. Scott 2010 All rights reserved.


4001V63-1200_9097.jpg
Copyright © Jeffrey P. Scott 2010 All rights reserved.


I added the .0047 cap sometime after installing the magnetic HS PU in the bass to good effect IMO.

I put the RI HS PU back in the bass when I sold it, and put the magnetic HS PU in my March '73 4001 (it had also been in my former May '08 4003 for a while, too. That pickups gets around! :mrgreen: ):

4003JPSVP_1200_7114.jpg
Copyright © Jeffrey P. Scott 2009 All rights reserved.


Here is a photo showing that there is quite a bit of string clearance in this particular pickup.

4003JPSVP_1200_7134.jpg
Copyright © Jeffrey P. Scott 2009 All rights reserved.

Re: Lets talk about horseys

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:42 pm
by jps
Shown below is a photo of the magnetic HS PU in its current home:

B-Drive-1200_1900.jpg
Copyright © Jeffrey P. Scott 2013 All rights reserved.


The Cave pedal is now being used with the 4004L SPC as it adds an amazing amount of gain for a passive pedal ( :shock: ) which comes in handy with the relatively low output of the pickups in that bass.

Re: Lets talk about horseys

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:02 pm
by Wiker
Revbrodiddley wrote:Got the strings on the way, my friend! That change is the obvious part for me. Sorry I didn't include it in the original post. I'm asking the questions about the less obvious bits. I've definitely experimented with pickup height but with the horseshoe particularly, there is very limited play as the lower the pickup goes, the less string clearance you have, so that at some point action must come down to compensate...which stands to negate the change in pickup height! I have spent the money on the harness, i definitely have NOT spent the money on the Lollar. I got the vintage toaster for 200 dollars...which is the same as a reissue toaster...so I don't feel I've really gone all out just yet! All good points though and I thank you for the thought!

Why would you want to lower the pickup so much that string clearance against the shoes becomes a problem? (just being curious) Is it to get even output between that vintage toaster and the very hot V63 RIHS? If so I would suggest unwinding the RIHS. Start by taking it down to 9K and see (e.. hear) what you thing.

One thing I forgot to say about the Lollar HS is that the output is a good match for 7.xK neck toaster, so the Lollar shouldn’t need to be lowered or raised to extremes in order to match output to a 7.xK toaster. On both my basses I have ended up with the strings close to being in the middle between poles and top of the shoes to get match output.

Re: Lets talk about horseys

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:47 pm
by Revbrodiddley
Not only to get it the pickups even with each other but also just to get each lower in output in general! To my ears they are both hot to the point of just being muddy...a tube amp that I would normally be able to drive a little to say 4 on volume now has to be turned to 2 to get the same volume (hence my knowing it wasn't just the strings that were making the difference). I actually like my action a little on the high side on my basses so putting the horseshoe pickup low and action high is, as you would imagine, a bit of a conflict.

Thanks everyone for all the info, I think I'll probably give the Lollar a try...might even give a lapsteel horsie a mod and a try at some point. I love trying all the options out there to find what I like the best, so these are all positives.

Re: Lets talk about horseys

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:14 am
by Wiker
I guess you still have the original, very hot toaster in your V63. Another thing is that the TI you have on the V63 produces a much stronger output than the Pyramid Gold on your 4003 (Pyramids are the lowest output flats I have tried). Much hotter pickups and strings with a much stronger output – yes, the output from your V63 will be dramatically different.

There are three (as far as I know) types of nickel flats out there – TI, Pyramid Gold, and Optima 4099: TI are the brightest and also have way stronger output than Pyramid; Pyramids are the cleanest sounding (less high harmonics) with the lowest output; Optimas are brighter than Pyramid but not as bright as TI, and have a slightly stronger output than Pyramid while not as strong as TI. (I guess TIs have a more magnetic string core wire, and therefore more affected by the magnetic field from pickups.)

Btw: Pyramid Gold and Optima 4099 works very well with the Lollar HS. For me TI didn’t work very well with the Lollar HS, as if those high output strings sort of over powered the pickup.

Re: Lets talk about horseys

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:26 am
by squirebass
Thanks everyone for their input, this is giving me a lot of food for thought! Please keep it coming!

Re: Lets talk about horseys

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:05 pm
by Revbrodiddley
Thanks Wiker! I had definitely noticed the difference between the TIs and the Pyramids, but didn't know that about Optimas. Very helpful!

Re: Lets talk about horseys

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:23 pm
by Captain Bob
Concerning the HS string clearance concerns discussed earlier. I have previously posted pics of the Snowglo's Lollar HS. Here is a couple quick shots of the '64 4001S....
rsz_img_0399.jpg
rsz_img_0401.jpg
rsz_img_0402.jpg

Re: Lets talk about horseys

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:44 am
by teeder
That looks like a sweet bass, Rob!

Re: Lets talk about horseys

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:18 pm
by Captain Bob
It really is. And, a lot of different folks did their bits over time to make it happen. Larry Davis, Dane, Sergio,......... I'm just its current custodian :-)

Re: Lets talk about horseys

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:09 am
by rickcrazy
8) I'm still very much around... :mrgreen:

Re: Lets talk about horseys

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:29 pm
by pag
I will get a pic of the Lollar HS asap folks its been a busy few weeks so I havent got round to it yet.
By the way I also have a 64 Electro lap steel with a good HS pup that I would be tempted to have
converted into a four pole.
Any recommendations for a pickup doctor here in the UK anyone?

Re: Lets talk about horseys

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:22 pm
by Boogie
pag wrote:IAny recommendations for a pickup doctor here in the UK anyone?


Try:

Kent Armstrong

Tel: 01233 822120

Re: Lets talk about horseys

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:34 pm
by squirebass
rickcrazy wrote:8) I'm still very much around... :mrgreen:


Heelllllooooo, Sergio! It has been a long time since we talked, since our 21 fretter discoveries and discussions, hope you are doing well!!! :mrgreen:

Re: Lets talk about horseys

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:05 pm
by Ashgray
pag wrote:I will get a pic of the Lollar HS asap folks its been a busy few weeks so I havent got round to it yet.
By the way I also have a 64 Electro lap steel with a good HS pup that I would be tempted to have
converted into a four pole.
Any recommendations for a pickup doctor here in the UK anyone?

Alas, I can't help with a PU doctor Pete. What I'm wondering is whether you (or anyone else) has any experience of the difference in sound (if any) between an original RIC horseshoe and the Lollar variety? I've already replaced the Re-issue HS pup in my V63 with a lap steel-sourced original, to great effect, and have a 4001 FL and a 4003s/8 that I'd like to try the original horsie sound with. However, I'm aware that sourcing lap steel horsies could be difficult and would consider the Lollar if it's comparable.

Here's the Lollar:
med-horseshoe-bass-pickup.jpg
med-horseshoe-bass-pickup.jpg (15.47 KiB) Viewed 2920 times


Ash