Very nice early '68 4001 at Willie's Guitars

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Badanovski
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Re: Very nice early '68 4001 at Willie's Guitars

Post by Badanovski »

It makes sense that when a note is fretted the nut is out of the equation. But...... if the nut is metal & the fret is metal the consistency between the notes would improve. It's entirely possible that an aluminum nut could sound closer to normal fret material. Given the difference in vibration between the height of the fret & the height of the nut. Only your OCD engineer would know for sure. :mrgreen:
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tmossman
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Re: Very nice early '68 4001 at Willie's Guitars

Post by tmossman »

First and foremost, it’s important to know that the material of the nut only influences the tone of the open strings directly.
Indirectly, the nut also influences the overall tone of a guitar because the nut transfers the vibrations of the strings to the neck, so the material and density are crucial.
The referenced article has a serious flaw. These two sentences ^^ are in direct conflict with one another. One can not make an absolute statement only to contradict it two sentences later.

The end points of any vibrating object affect the vibrations of the object therefore all nut materials contribute to tone at all times.


p.s. I do have an M.E. degree.
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wim
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Re: Very nice early '68 4001 at Willie's Guitars

Post by wim »

tmossman wrote:
First and foremost, it’s important to know that the material of the nut only influences the tone of the open strings directly.
Indirectly, the nut also influences the overall tone of a guitar because the nut transfers the vibrations of the strings to the neck, so the material and density are crucial.
The referenced article has a serious flaw. These two sentences ^^ are in direct conflict with one another. One can not make an absolute statement only to contradict it two sentences later.

The end points of any vibrating object affect the vibrations of the object therefore all nut materials contribute to tone at all times.


p.s. I do have an M.E. degree.
The second quote is about the open strings situation, there is no conflict at all. I'm sure you understand this, having an ME degree.
With a fretted note the end point of the initial vibration is the fret where the string is pressed against.
At that point you could even theoretically take the nut away as it is your finger, the fret and the bridge that hold the string in its place. Behind your finger there is another fret where the string is pressed against, so there are even two frets between the vibration and the nut, except at the first fret.
Of course vibration energy is transferred to parts of the guitar that are not involved in the initial action.
bobbolux
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Re: Very nice early '68 4001 at Willie's Guitars

Post by bobbolux »

FabGearHead wrote:Hey everybody, are all of the older 60's Rick basses prone to high action with the bridges bottomed out? In my experience I have worked on a several 60's Rick basses and on all of them the bridge was adjusted all the way down. Some had their saddles ground down as well. I have even seen where the wood directly under the tailpiece was routed to the outline of the tailpiece and about 3/16" deep to get a lower action. I am asking this question because as a repair-tech/luthier, I would be seeing instruments needing help rather than clean straight examples. Installing new truss rods was common due to ******** up adjustment nuts and broken off threaded sections.

Just wondering...

Jim
Jim, in my experience, even with the 4000 model that has no neck route, it is the zero break angle of the neck that is the main cuplrit. these older models (into the 70's) have no break angle, so even with a dead straight neck, it will pull forward slightly at the body's fulcrum point creating a situation that is impossible to remedy.
when you route a relief for the bridge, you are essentially creating a reverse break angle.
teeder
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Re: Very nice early '68 4001 at Willie's Guitars

Post by teeder »

In my limited experience, old Rick basses without neck issues are the exception.
Which is why I've reluctantly been going back to Phenders. :(
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jps
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Re: Very nice early '68 4001 at Willie's Guitars

Post by jps »

teeder wrote:In my limited experience, old Rick basses without neck issues are the exception.
Which is why I've reluctantly been going back to Phenders. :(
I owned some Phendurs with varying neck issues.
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opticnerve
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Re: Very nice early '68 4001 at Willie's Guitars

Post by opticnerve »

teeder wrote:In my limited experience, old Rick basses without neck issues are the exception.
Which is why I've reluctantly been going back to Phenders. :(
Hey Kevin, of the 15 - 16 '60s Ric basses that I've owned, two had neck issues that weren't caused by

incompetent set ups or man made damage. I guess I've been lucky!
FabGearHead
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Re: Very nice early '68 4001 at Willie's Guitars

Post by FabGearHead »

Thanks for the input, guys! I would have to believe that some are still structurally sound and playable. My experience with wood is that there are variables even between sister wood (cut from the same log side by side) which can lead to serious movement.

Jim
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wim
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Re: Very nice early '68 4001 at Willie's Guitars

Post by wim »

opticnerve wrote:
teeder wrote:In my limited experience, old Rick basses without neck issues are the exception.
Which is why I've reluctantly been going back to Phenders. :(
Hey Kevin, of the 15 - 16 '60s Ric basses that I've owned, two had neck issues that weren't caused by

incompetent set ups or man made damage. I guess I've been lucky!
Or you owned them in the 70s :wink:
teeder
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Re: Very nice early '68 4001 at Willie's Guitars

Post by teeder »

jps wrote:
teeder wrote:In my limited experience, old Rick basses without neck issues are the exception.
Which is why I've reluctantly been going back to Phenders. :(
I owned some Phendurs with varying neck issues.
Me too, but generally, they are easier to fix yourself. Not everyone can route out the neck pocket and stuff a new block of wood in to correct a bad neck angle. They're also generally not as touchy about the string tension.

I'm going to stop now. I don't mean to Rick bash on a Rick forum. I love 'em, but can also admit that they are usually more touchy than other basses, IMO.
FabGearHead
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Re: Very nice early '68 4001 at Willie's Guitars

Post by FabGearHead »

I never once got any impression that "bashing" was part of this conversation. Rather, I wanted to clarify my personal observations pertaining to older Rick basses. Kevin, I for one appreciate your input and your attitude concerning this subject. Jeff on the other hand... :lol:

Jim
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