1977 4001 Setup

[timo]

Hi everybody,

I recently picked up a '77 4001 that I've been putting back together and setting up, and I've encountered a couple issues I would love some feedback on.
This bass came with a BadAss bridge that I already switched out to a '75 tailpiece, and the nut has been replaced with a brass nut.

I loosened the truss rods completely (which was a chore--it's almost impossible to adjust them because they are bent back), put on a new set of TI Jazz flats, and started slowly adjusting the truss rod tension back up to get the neck set flat. The problem I'm now encountering is that there is a ton of buzz happening on the E string, mostly between the fist through third frets. I didn't even get a chance to get the neck dead flat yet, but I know that it won't be playable in its current state with a flat neck.

My suspicion is that I need a new nut on it. I'm adding some pictures to see if anybody can confirm my suspicion. Also, as you can hopefully see in the pictures, the truss rod cavity has been gouged out in the past in order to be able to access the truss rods because it's so tough. Any thoughts on that?

And some background on me, I'm a guitar player who has played and set up all my Rickenbackers, but not yet a bass. The string height seems pretty high to me now, but I'm hoping to get that fixed next. Right now it's over 1/8" at the 12th fret.

Thank you all for your time.

[jdogric12]

First things first - just want to make sure you're familiar with the "old style rods" method of adjustment... you don't just turn them to and fro to make the adjustments. The way they work is you loosen the nuts, manually "bend" the rod to where you want it (with strings at pitch and tension), and then tighten the nuts. Many people don't know this, tighten tighten tighten until snap - the fingerboard pops off. Common to see little diagonal cracks going out from the nut on this era from exactly that.

[cheyenne]

+1 what Jason said... also, I'd cut a new nut for sure.

You could shim the nut up from the bottom, just to see if takes care of your buzzing E.

[timo]

Thank you, that’s good to know.

My guitars are all more modern, so I’ve been doing it a little bit differently. I’ve been patient, and only turn them about 1/4 way each day, but in the future I’ll go about it differently.

Any opinions on recommended nuts?
Or maybe I take this one in for the work?

[jdogric12]

Try the proper vintage rod method and go from there. If it still buzzes on the first fret after doing all that, THEN you may need a new nut.

[timo]

Great, thanks so much. One last question—how would you go about accessing the truss rod nuts when it’s so difficult to get a tool around them? Has anybody encountered such a situation?

Thanks again.

[jps]

Great, thanks so much. One last question—how would you go about accessing the truss rod nuts when it’s so difficult to get a tool around them? Has anybody encountered such a situation?

Thanks again.

Clamp the neck at the nut to prevent separating the fingerboard from the neck. Then gently, but firmly, pry the nuts up so that you can get the TR took over them.

You probably want to remove the truss rods and clean up the threads or cut and make new threaded and beveled ends to the rods.

[libratune]

Great, thanks so much. One last question—how would you go about accessing the truss rod nuts when it’s so difficult to get a tool around them? Has anybody encountered such a situation?

Thanks again.

If you have a grinder, you might want to grind the business end of your tool down so the sides are thinner. This will give you a better chance of fitting your tool onto the truss rod nuts.

[timo]

Thanks, everybody for the suggestions.

I’ll see how this works out, although if it gets to replacing the truss rods or even removing them I may defer to an expert.
As far as the tool goes, I may just look for something with a narrower slot. Right now I’m using the tool Rickenbacker sells and it’s beem fine everywhere but here.

Thanks again, I’ll keep you all posted.

[jdogric12]

I ground my RIC tool (the Excelite they sell on the RIC site) and it works great for situations like this. It's saved me several times. Too bad you're not closer to DC or you could borrow mine!

Don't go using a shorter-handled tool, or one of those angled ones... a lot of people say "it's fine" but John Hall has said the difference in torque is bad for the instrument. People dismiss this, thinking that somehow RIC a diabolical scheme where they profit from selling long-handled tools, but I doubt that's the case (much, anyway), and I prefer to be safe than sorry!

[songdog]

First things first - just want to make sure you're familiar with the "old style rods" method of adjustment... you loosen the nuts, manually "bend" the rod to where you want it ...

Just to clarify - you meant "bend the neck" (not rod), right?

[songdog]

The problem I'm now encountering is that there is a ton of buzz happening on the E string, mostly between the fist through third frets. [...] My suspicion is that I need a new nut on it.

If fretted notes buzz, it's probably not the nut. If the nut is cut too deep, the open string will buzz, but once you've fretted a note the nut is pretty much irrelevant.

Once you get the setup straightened out, that should be an awesome bass!

[chefothefuture]

I ground my RIC tool (the Excelite they sell on the RIC site) and it works great for situations like this. It's saved me several times. Too bad you're not closer to DC or you could borrow mine!

Don't go using a shorter-handled tool, or one of those angled ones... a lot of people say "it's fine" but John Hall has said the difference in torque is bad for the instrument. People dismiss this, thinking that somehow RIC a diabolical scheme where they profit from selling long-handled tools, but I doubt that's the case (much, anyway), and I prefer to be safe than sorry!

That and Stew-Mac sells one which has a narrower wall than the one I got from RIC (well I got that one 25 years ago so maybe Rickenbacker sells a different one now...)

[aceonbass]

I’ll see how this works out, although if it gets to replacing the truss rods or even removing them I may defer to an expert.

Since the rods have already bent downward at the ends, they'll do it again...and probably right away. This needs to be dealt with, so they have to come out. Cover the face of the headstock with painter's tape, grab the threaded portion of each rod (no nuts installed) and pull them out with a skinny pair of vice grips. You'll then need to cut off the threaded portion, along with an equal length of the unthreaded portion, then re-tap the threads on the longer end. This isn't nearly as complicated as it sounds, and is one of the first techie sort of things I did on one of my old Ricks. It also looks like you need a fretjob, and therefore a new nut. If you don't wanna attempt any of this work, there's a great tech north of you in Newhall named Don Butler. Also known as "The Tone Man", he has a website too.

[jdogric12]

First things first - just want to make sure you're familiar with the "old style rods" method of adjustment... you loosen the nuts, manually "bend" the rod to where you want it ...

Just to clarify - you meant "bend the neck" (not rod), right?

oops - yes, thanks!