Bubbling Finish Issues?

[chrisdski]

viewtopic.php?f=106&t=413568

[coolhandjjl]

Okay, so with these previous threads:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=408006
viewtopic.php?f=106&t=413568

it seems the issue has been brought to this forum and discussed in-depth, yet when this thread was started, many RRF forum members conveniently forgot or ignored the finish defect was occurring.

[bassduke49]

John, not everyone here reads all the divisions of this forum. Some (such as myself) read the bass forum primarily. So forgetting or ignoring this topic isn't necessarily the case here. Let's not get political.

[henry5]

John, not everyone here reads all the divisions of this forum. Some (such as myself) read the bass forum primarily. So forgetting or ignoring this topic isn't necessarily the case here. Let's not get political.

Ditto. I only really read Basses and the Marketplace.

[Sparge]

I'm doing a quick, informal, anonymous survey of this issue. Please take a couple minutes to fill this out, once for each Rick you own:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/WL72PSM

I'll post a summary of the results when things settle down.

[Isaac]

I'm doing a quick, informal, anonymous survey of this issue. Please take a couple minutes to fill this out, once for each Rick you own:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/WL72PSM

I'll post a summary of the results when things settle down.

Are you interested in instruments made before 2010 or in walnut models? I'd think not.

[coolhandjjl]

Sounds like it’s been a problem going way way back, but seems to occurring much more frequently with the newer finish.
So older basses are okay to include. Oil finish basses like walnut need not be included.

[teeder]

John, not everyone here reads all the divisions of this forum. Some (such as myself) read the bass forum primarily. So forgetting or ignoring this topic isn't necessarily the case here. Let's not get political.

Ditto. I only really read Basses and the Marketplace.

Me too.

[teeder]

Sometimes that route is a hair too deep, and people have done the penny trick to maintain intimate contact with the bridge well and the body. People have also done the penny trick so the tailpiece doesn't jack-knife into that too-deep route when screwed in with too much zest and vigor.

Also in cases where that route is too deep, and the three screws that go into the bridge well are put in with too much zest and vigor, I can certainly visualize the tailpiece crushing the clear coat.

On both my 4003s, I epoxy bedded that route so the bridge well makes intimate contact with a firm solid surface, and the tailpiece itself doesn't have the opportunity to be driven in deeper than it is supposed to.

In these days of CNC and 3d models, this is completely unacceptable.

[coolhandjjl]

In these days of CNC and 3d models, this is completely unacceptable.

The thing is, the bridge route depth cannot be precisely routed for these reasons:
- The body top is hand sanded, so that brings in a variable into its actual depth. If too much is sanded, the resulting depth will be too shallow, and the bridge won't set in properly.
- The underside of the bridge well is irregular making for a prefect intimate contact unachievable.
- Variations in the casting itself. Even a tailpiece that is different from expected by just a hair will throw everything off.

Given all that, the bridge route depth has to be over-shot and 'epoxy bedding' after the body is sanded and finished is the only way to achieve and insure proper intimate contact with sturdy and dense enough support between the two mating surfaces.

If not bedded, when the three screws under the bridge are inserted, there will be a tendency to drill them in too deep/with too much force as the bottom of the route is not supporting the underside of the bridge well. Just air. Then when the bridge is inserted and you take into account the added pressure from the strings, there will be a continual 'driving down' of that area. Perhaps that's why it sometimes takes a while to show up. That's may also be why some basses that get refinished continue to exhibit finish failure by the bridge. A bridge route that may have been unintentionally too deep, deeper than most, could doom that bass forever.

Apparently, some finish applications wind up being robust enough to withstand just about anything, especially if the bridge route bottom is really really close and just 'kisses' the underside of the deepest protrusions of the bridge well. But some finish applications wind up being too fragile for whatever reason and will fail when crushed by too much concentrated pressure, especially in the event of a particular bass having a bridge route bottom too far away from the underside of the bridge well.

My epoxy bed mod outlined in depth:
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/the-ri ... t-20985171
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/the-ri ... t-20985374

Moderator: If these links are against forum rules, feel free to remove them.

[lumgimfong]

My 2016 Fireglo 4003 is fine, no bubbling anywhere.
I did the survey to add datum.

I wonder if a Hipshot Ric bridge would be large enough to cover the spot and eliminate the problem as the hipshot is a flat mating surface, I think.

If my bridge has probs I think I would just throw a hipshot on.

I had a hipshot replacement gibson three point bass bridge on a Gibson bass and it was a really nice bridge and added clarity to the tone. Also made intonation way easier.

[henry5]

Well I tried a new 4003 in British Racing Green today. Looked spectacular, especially compared to the normal models. Weight wasn’t too bad, although heavier than either of my ‘72s. Balance was good, better than expected with the bigger headstock & tuners (compared to mine). Playability was pretty terrible; the factory setup was pretty much as per my 1980 4001, with the strings about half an inch off the board. Difficult to tell what it sounded like as the pickups were miles from the strings. But the real bummer was I checked the bridge and lo & behold; bubbling. Not bad, very slight, you really had to look, but there. Not acceptable on an instrument costing £3199 UK. The dealer agreed Ric don’t seem to care. Disappointing to say the least.

[aceonbass]

The dealer agreed Ric don’t seem to care. Disappointing to say the least.

The bass is under warranty. If the dealer won't handle it, then it's them that don't care. If the neck is so badly warped that the stings are half an inch of the fretboard, you should send it back anyway.

[Gilmourisgod]

That's a drag, you'd think they would take some extra care on a high-profile custom color. If the bubbling was just a barely perceptible thing that didn't get any worse, I guess you could live with it, though at those prices, I'm not sure why you should. Unfortunately, the track record is that it gets worse over time. As to the action, they seem to ship basses with very high nut action, some nonsense about "user preference", but I don't know any users who "prefer" a high nut. There is really only a tiny range of nut height variations that will yield a comfortable action in the low registers. The high action may be related to neck movement during shipping from the US to UK, though I've seen similar horrendous setup (or lack thereof) on Rics for sale at Guitar Center, and that's presumably coming in on trucks, not a container ship. They do NO setup when they get them, just slap them up on the wall. I love that BRG color, maybe they will get this finish fiasco resolved eventually.

[henry5]

The dealer agreed Ric don’t seem to care. Disappointing to say the least.

The bass is under warranty. If the dealer won't handle it, then it's them that don't care. If the neck is so badly warped that the stings are half an inch of the fretboard, you should send it back anyway.

This is in the UK though, remember. The dealer may have handled it, although they didn’t seem overly concerned about it, but in the UK it would be returned to the distributor for repair, not Ric. However I got the impression that although this was the first bubbling finish they’d seen, it wasn’t the first issue they’d had with Ric by any means.

The neck wasn’t warped. It just had way, way too much relief and the string height was far too high. I saw 5 4003 basses in 2 shops and they were all like this. Every single one was nigh on unplayable for me, allowing for the fact I like very low action.

I’ve actually been offered an as-new BRG for an extremely good price, no bubbling I’m aware of. But I’m loathe to buy it in case it bubbles at a later date. Odd really I suppose, as I’d spend more on a vintage bass with dings and scrapes and not bat an eyelid. Not that it’s the bubbling that bothers me so much as the possibility of it flaking off. But buying a new instrument with a finish defect and no discount just seems wrong on all levels.