A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

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KenOnBass
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Re: A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

Post by KenOnBass »

Good idea. It's a finish flaw for sure especially since the finish is inconsistent on edges, but I can live with it. However, people should look for this issue before they purchase a new Ric.

lumgimfong wrote:You could post your concerns here and see if John Hall chimes in about this issue. Sometimes he will.

http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5

One way to settle it is use acetone to wipe off the finish and see what the wood underneath looks like -smooth or pitted.
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jdogric12
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Re: A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

Post by jdogric12 »

I've put up with quirks on rare or older models, but I'm not sure I'd be so willing to let it slide on such an easily replaceable new instrument.
teeder
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Re: A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

Post by teeder »

jdogric12 wrote:I've put up with quirks on rare or older models, but I'm not sure I'd be so willing to let it slide on such an easily replaceable new instrument.
+1!
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henry5
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Re: A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

Post by henry5 »

teeder wrote:
jdogric12 wrote:I've put up with quirks on rare or older models, but I'm not sure I'd be so willing to let it slide on such an easily replaceable new instrument.
+1!
+2!

I've seen finish issues on almost all of the new Rics I've checked out; mostly the bubbling round the bridge, but either way, not good. I would not be happy with the finish problems you're showing on a new bass. Having said that, I played a new 4003 the other day which was great, apart from the bubbling and the setup (which was appalling). It was light, had a nice neck and sounded very good. Would I pay full price (£1800UK) for it? I don't know. I'm not someone who is concerned with my instrument being pristine, unless that's what you're supposedly paying for, which of course you are on a new instrument. A new bass should be pretty much perfect, or why buy a new bass? And it seems Ric - and the dealers to be fair - don't give a damn. I've pointed out the bubbling finish on 2 basses now and both times the sales guys have just shrugged their shoulders. I've defended the company countless times over the years, but this just isn't good enough IMO.
Guzzitd63
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Re: A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

Post by Guzzitd63 »

Hiya Ken!

I'm debating the wisdom of opening my (cyber)mouth but ...

I feel your pain and I, for one, would be very disappointed.
For what its worth, I bought an inexpensive ($200) Fender acoustic for use as a "campfire guitar". The black finish on it is flawless - even on the endgrain of the headstock. Maybe paint shrinks less in China. :shock:
KenOnBass wrote: Reply #1 after initial email
This is a result of the instruments grain showing through as the finish shrinks to the instrument. Rickenbacker instruments are not grain filled and as the finish shrinks to the body over time it is not uncommon to see the grain ...
So essentially they're telling you your bass was shipped before the paint had fully cured? I guess I don't understand how you can wet-sand and buff paint that isn't completely dry.

I always thought one of the things that sets Rickenbacker apart from less premium instruments was their exceptional finish.
Bubbling/blistering paint and orange peel? I dunno.

Anyway ... I think you said you got a pretty good deal on the guitar. I guess you could just play the strings off of it and consider it "mojo"
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Boogie
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Re: A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

Post by Boogie »

My 2016 4003S FG also had the same rough finish problem, also around the edge.

I went through this forum and the RIC forum to research about finish-related warranty claims and decided there was no point in raising the issue with either my dealer or RIC. Even if they were willing to take it back to fix it, who knows how long the wait would be? I had waited over a year for delivery already.

Yes, it sucks that I can feel the rough surface whenever I run my hand near the jackplate for the cable. I guess it was my fault for wanting a RIC bass.

P.S. I'd be happy to take a photo and post it here, if anyone is interested.
teptwizz02
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Re: A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

Post by teptwizz02 »

KenOnBass wrote:I’ve decided to let it pass and focus on enjoying the bass. The finish is not flawless but I can overlook it. Not worth it to me to fight Rickenbacker about this.
Same situation with my '18 Ric Special Edition Montezuma Amberglo, and this is what I decided as well. The finish defects were apparent on the upper horn edge and and a good size strip of the edge that goes toward the input jacks. I was pretty annoyed at first considering the price, but it didn't detract from the overall beauty of this instrument's finish. I realized that pursuing the issue with the factory would most likely be a futile effort. They wouldn't have another on hand to replace it and it wouldn't be worth the wait to get it refinished for something that's not visible on the surface. I also figured that years of use would eventually lead to some wear around these areas. Again, still a gorgeous bass... have a look.
Ric Monte Amber.jpg
Last edited by teptwizz02 on Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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jdogric12
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Re: A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

Post by jdogric12 »

Just curious, what prices are you all getting these S's for that you're willing to keep them rather than buying one of the many that are currently available on open marketplaces?
teeder
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Re: A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

Post by teeder »

Kicking a dead horse here, but most of the areas I've seen posted are not where the "end grain" would be.
Gilmourisgod
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Re: A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

Post by Gilmourisgod »

That's got nothing to do with grain, as Ric well knows. That's just good old fashioned orangepeel that whoever wetsanded and polished it missed. Why would they even bother with that BS about grain showing through? Anybody who has ever painted a bass, or a car for that matter knows exactly what it is: orangepeel.
Guzzitd63
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Re: A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

Post by Guzzitd63 »

Gilmourisgod wrote:That's got nothing to do with grain, as Ric well knows. That's just good old fashioned orangepeel that whoever wetsanded and polished it missed. Why would they even bother with that BS about grain showing through? Anybody who has ever painted a bass, or a car for that matter knows exactly what it is: orangepeel.
plus 1 ... (or 2, whatever is appropriate.)

I do wonder if a good luthier could further wet-sand and buff. Is the clear-coat thick enough to sand without busting thru to to color coat?
Gilmourisgod
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Re: A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

Post by Gilmourisgod »

I imagine it could be wetsanded and buffed out, just as the rest of the body was. The UV-cured clearcoat is effectively one relatively thin layer, however. They spray it once, and into the UV light booth it goes. Any other overcoat after the fact would not "burn-in" like nitro, so if you sand through to color coat, you are screwed. The other issue that really frosts my cake is that they require the blameless CUSTOMER to foot the bill for postage one way to CA for a warranty claim refin or repair. I can't think of another guitar company with that policy, which seems specifically designed to discourage warranty claims. How about they establish a few regional claim centers like most companies? They really need to get a handle on the finish issues, the bubbling around the bridge has been happening since at least 2010. Kinda hard to rationalize that one away.
gregson62
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Re: A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

Post by gregson62 »

I called Rickenbacker and Wildwood Guitars today to find out what the recourse is for the issue, if any.

I called Rickenbacker first and was quickly answered by their customer service line. I mentioned the problem and they were ready with a reply: Rickenbacker doesn't seal the wood grain, so it is free to peek through the 'poly finish' continues to cure. I was told this happens rarely and is not considered a production or quality issue. I asked for the year when Rickenbacker moved from conversion varnish to polyurethane varnish and was told 2013. He told me to send pictures and they would evaluate if this were a warranty issue before issuing an RMA. Fair enough--and I told the representative I'll think it over.

I then called Wildwood to do a reality check to maybe find out how common this problem is--at least from their perspective. It's considered by them to be a rather rare issue. I suggested that it could also be a problem that develops over time that they can't easily and directly track after the sale, at least without feedback. If the problem develops while the instrument is in the store, then they point it out to the buyer and offer a good discount. I get it--they're retail and it's pointless for them to tie up inventory due to cosmetic reasons when shipping back to the manufacturer. To their credit, they offered to follow up on the issue with Rickenbacker next week.

I then used the power of the internet to research polyurethane varnishes and conversion varnishes, pro's and con's, use cases, wood grain/pore finish issue mitigation, etc. Do your own research and draw your own conclusions.

Can a good luthier/autobody man color sand and polish out this stuff? Maybe. The rough edges are just that: EDGES. Where the finish is generally the thinnest. It's very easy to go too far.
Gilmourisgod
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Re: A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

Post by Gilmourisgod »

Again, any talk about "wood grain showing through" is purest BS from Ric CS. End grain would show up on the vertical edges, not the roundovers, and even if it did, that would be a finish flaw. That's nothing but good old fashioned orangepeel, and yes, it can be wetsanded and buffed out. Its not rocket science, but pretty dodgy on edges. Its REALLY easy to sand through the clearcoat. You are just being blatantly stonewalled on this one, they are just waiting for you to give up, like most people do, or eat sh*t and dip into your own pocket to pay to ship the bass back to them. I know people on RRF are often reluctant to call out Rickenbacker for poor QC and CS, but this kind of **** is too common to ignore. Sorry to say it, love the bass, loathe the company.
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KenOnBass
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Re: A bit rough around (some) edges...is this normal?

Post by KenOnBass »

I posted over on the Ric Forum and while there have been a bunch of views, there are only couple unrelated responses. Not a lot of traffic over there. I posted on TB a while back. Oh well. I'm going to put a treble bezel and a harness from Dane soon so that will most likely void the warranty anyway.

It's not grain poking through. That's just so weak. Their willingness to send me an RMA but not assure me that it would be taken care of beforehand is also pretty bad in my book.

This kind of puts the icing on my relationship with Rickenbacker and Rics in general...very much a love/hate thing. I've had many Rics, as many of you have as well, for the reason that they've never been quite right for me for one reason or another. Purchasing basses from Sadowsky and even Fender has been much more fulfilling. Better QC and Customer Service for sure. Fortunately, I like this most recent 4003s Ric so I think my Ric urge is satisfied for now.
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