Rickenbacker bass neck - Right amount of relief

[cassius987]

I'm working on getting my 4003S setup really dialed in. It came with the default setup most Rics seem to - higher action than I think necessary, extremely straight neck. To suit my preferences I try to lower the action a bit (7/64'' on the E string 17th fret; closer to 6/64'' on the G string side) and add relief to compensate. Interestingly, with this bass, as I add in relief (which is difficult because the neck is very sturdy and "wants" to be straight), I get a little buzz on the low E string frets 3-7, while abolishing the backbow buzz on the 1st and 2nd frets of the E and A string.

The fact that buzz is moving rather than going away has me wondering if the old adage that a Ric neck should be "dead straight" may be true for this one. What do you think? Do Ric necks "need" to be dead straight or is that a myth? (I lean towards myth, but am challenged by the fact that I am terrible at sighting relief in necks* and have always setup to taste in the past; whereas now I'm trying to be a bit more accurate.)

In case you're wondering, I think the relief is currently less (perhaps much less) than 0.4 mm, which is actually quite a bit. I just don't have a thin feeler gauge on hand, and not sure what to use in its place. I got the 0.4 mm estimate based on the thickness of my mechanic's ruler, the current go-to feeler gauge.

*I have asked multiple people to show me how they do it and it seems it can't be taught. Whatever folks are seeing when they sight a neck, for me is like looking at the ocean to see how curved the earth's surface is...

[lumgimfong]

I do a business card at the 9th fret. Capo I. Finger highest fret.
So not dead straight.
Any straighter and I get fret rattle on the A and D strings at 4th fret.
For the past week I am getting rattle again.

I have been having to tighten the rods about twice a year since I bought it and since I put 40-100 guage Chromes stringsets on but this time I can ease it off a bit, since the neck went straighter on its own this time, which Is a nice change. I was beginning to wonder how much tighter I was gonna have to get the rods to keep the neck straight. Happy that this time I can go counter clockwise and relax the neck a bit!!
I guess the neck has dried out sufficiently now. It is a 2016 model.
Or perhaps it was switching to the next lighter Chromes set about a month ago. But that seems like a long time for the neck to appreciate that change. Maybe the warming temps too? Just glad I don’t need to go clockwise on the rods again.

[iiipopes]

I adjust to perfectly straight then back off the E string side truss rod nut a quarter turn to give the E string a hair more excursion room, since on most bass guitar string sets, the E string is actually a thinner gauge than the math for "balanced tension" might suggest, and therefore a tad more floppy. The purpose of this is to keep the string as flexible as possible so it doesn't thump compared to the A-D-G strings. It's not really measureable, but you can surely tell that the buzz or fret slap is gone without raising the action too high. That's how I set up your bass that got all the compliments at Hoover Music years ago.

[cassius987]

I adjust to perfectly straight then back off the E string side truss rod nut a quarter turn to give the E string a hair more excursion room, since on most bass guitar string sets, the E string is actually a thinner gauge than the math for "balanced tension" might suggest, and therefore a tad more floppy. The purpose of this is to keep the string as flexible as possible so it doesn't thump compared to the A-D-G strings. It's not really measureable, but you can surely tell that the buzz or fret slap is gone without raising the action too high. That's how I set up your bass that got all the compliments at Hoover Music years ago.

I was recalling your thoughtful approach to bass setup as I wrote the original post. That was indeed a great setup that got me through more than a year of steady playing, and I seem to recall the setup was also right before I did my first real studio recordings, so that was perfect timing.

Unfortunately when I go for "dead straight" on my own I seem to get a bit more buzz than you did - but I think it's a deficiency in how I measure the relief. I do the technique listed above by Michael (capo fret 1, finger fret 20, feeler gauge at fret 8 or 9). You're right that buzz favors the E string side, and tension is part of it. I think the prior post suggesting by Michael to use a business card is a good idea. My mechanic's rule is clearly too thick for appropriate amount of relief, but something just a bit thinner would be perfect; I'm guessing business cards probably are. (If I go by Fender numbers, I need 0.3 mm - I bought some feeler gauges online for this purpose and they'll be here soon.) Part of my current trouble is also that my 4003S just has a really stiff neck that wants to be super straight; the rods barely need any tension at all.

[iiipopes]

The standard is to use a set of feeler gauges, like this:
https://www.amazon.com/OEMTOOLS-25025-B ... B000BYGIR4

[cheyenne]

Is your 4003s new?

I command a really low action on my basses, and my 2016 4003s (purchased new), is just now starting to settle down to where I can get the action where I like it.

I don't know, maybe the neck was still a little "green" when I got it, but here in 2019 its actually become quite stable.

[cassius987]

I used 0.35, 0.30 and 0.28 mm feeler gauges until I felt minimal resistance from the smaller two and an increase in resistance with the largest, which told me (a novice at using them) I had probably set the relief (measured at the 8th fret) where I was aiming. Now there is no fret buzzing without a lot of effort; the truss rods are each a 3/4 turn past finger tight at most. I was also able to get the action (off of the 12th fret) to 2 mm on the E side and 1.75 mm on the G side, which I think is pretty good. I also have pretty high tension strings on here, which is probably further minimizing buzz.

If anyone has a bass they are really happy with the setup on, I'd be curious what your numbers are.

[squirebass]

Is your 4003s new?

I command a really low action on my basses, and my 2016 4003s (purchased new), is just now starting to settle down to where I can get the action where I like it.

I don't know, maybe the neck was still a little "green" when I got it, but here in 2019 its actually become quite stable.

I'm that way too, and I have two 4003s's a 2015 and a 2017, both were initially difficult to get to the low, low low action I prefer.... I find that I like lower action than many here, but I don't set the neck absolutely straight.
I don't know if it is the wood being "green" or just that they are new, but every instrument I've gotten from Rickenbacker, that was brand new from the factory(guitars too), had a period of fussy adjustment, then they adjusted and played like buttah!

[cheyenne]

I've had I think 17 Rickenbacker basses. This is the only one I've had this problem with.

[gregson62]

I bought two 4003 AMB CB VP basses from Wildwood last summer, about a month apart. These are limited editions, 15 unit run, but likely done in at least two batches. Wildwood does a pretty good setup and they did an initial one for each bass, per my request. I decided to play the first one and put the second bass away as a 'collector' unit. Everything was going fine until about the second month. I really love the bass and it frustrated me that it wasn't playing as well as it could, with the buzzing and intonation issues. I contacted Wildwood and Rickenbacker about a finish issue that was also developing, but it was outside of what I now call the '1 month Wildwood setup warranty period'. Rickenbacker customer support...I am going to reserve further comment at this time. Let's just say that between the two, I was surprised to feel that I was on my own.

I first invested in a Rickenbacker bass neck straight edge from eBay, which is smooth on one side and slotted on the other to fit around the frets and used it to confirm a twisting and bowing neck--and this is with the original strings. I bought a bunch of relevant luthier tools from Stew Mac, reviewed some online videos concerning their use, then dug in. It's worth repeating that I had a second bass that was essentially acting as a 'control', with none of the issues being seen on the first bass. I started with the neck issues by using the 'old school' Rickenbacker bass neck adjustment process, which involves loosening strings and truss rods, then physically wrestling the neck into position, tightening truss rods, tightening strings to pitch, then verifying using both edges of straight edge. Rinse - repeat, rinse - repeat...then let it settle for two or three days. I repeated the process at least 4 times, getting closer each time--until one day, perfection. A reasonably flat fret board. The fret height was all over the map, however, so I CAREFULLY and GENTLY used both rubber and brass mallets to ensure the frets were seated against a fully supported neck. I used a small fret rocker and the straight edge to mark the tops of the high frets with a blue Sharpie. I did try loosening and tightening the truss rods several times to see how it affected these areas, as well as applying neck compression by bringing the strings up to pitch. It all impacted adjustment and playablity, of course--but never to bring things into correct alignment to get rid of the issues. I finally purchased a luthier digital caliper to measure the fret height and compare the high and low spots, after setting the fret board perfectly straight with strings on and tuned to pitch. I had a fret leveling issue--no doubt--and there was a pattern to it. I took a few days to geek over the whole mess...reconsider my options with Rickenbacker and decide whether I wanted to drive the bass over to a professional to have the work done. I looked at the second bass and my small collection of Fenders, and went for it, leveling and reshaping frets myself. I went SLOW, learned how to use a couple of different fret files, and then learned how to polish frets. The polish work on the frets may actually be just a bit better than factory, which are usually really nice. It was nerve racking, but I felt a sense of accomplishment, with no unintended damage to the fret board, edge bindings, headstock or nut. Lots of masking tape was involved. The fret board was flat. The frets were flat. I could set a little relief if I want to. I used the radius gauges to ensure a 10 degree on the underside of the strings, particularly at the bridge, where I replaced the original 'D' saddle to get it perfect. The strings used during the process are my favorites: D'Addario EXL165, Nickel wound 45-65-85-105. I had to widen the nut slots for A and D, but I didn't have to replace the original nut. As someone else mentioned on here, I put just A LITTLE bow into the neck on the 'E' string side to help further reduce the possibility of buzz. For string height, I'm at 5/64" on 'E' and 4/64" on 'G' at the 15th fret, but I can go a little higher or lower if the humidity plays with the neck. I don't know if this string height is low, high or indifferent, but it feels right to me.

Since I completed this work, I bought a Makita RT0701C router, made a gate out of a length of aluminum 'L' and enlarged the neck pocket just enough and only so deep so I could move the neck pickup to the vintage position. I was tempting fate, but the bass has been stable for about 3 months. Time will tell if I've managed to introduce a variable, but I will definitely know who to blame.

The 'control' bass continued to remain stable right up until the day I sold it--just about a month ago. It's gone on to a new owner, who's playing the hell out of it. Just as it should be.

I've owned 7 new and another 8 used Rickenbackers and I have only had neck problems with this one bass.

[cheyenne]

Good read.

Unfortunate situation, but you should be proud of your accomplishment. I've done some fretwork to a few of my Rickenbackers. I had a "Blueboy color of the year" that was all over the place with fret height, after a couple weekends of tedious leveling, it turned out quite well.

[Gilmourisgod]

I use this video series as a rough starting point, with a capo at the first fret, and fretted where the neck crosses onto the body, I look for .012" relief at the 8th fret. If it doesn't buzz at that setting, you can sneak it a little flatter in tiny increments until it sounds and plays good. Some people like a little fret buzz, listen to isolated recordings of Squire, he liked a LOT of fret buzz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te44eWXd9pc

[cassius987]

0.012'' relief is about the same as the 0.3 mm I achieve with my 4003S a few days ago. I just got a straightedge with slots cut for the Ric scale length frets, and it turns out the feeler gauge method was pretty much dead-on. The 4003S neck borders on dead flat. By contrast, my 4003/5 has a small amount of relief. I like how they both play, so that's fine.

Maybe before this, I was actually running a bit of backbow, and didn't know it. There's some buzzing presently, but not unless I play aggressively.

The comment about Squire's technique is true - but it's also interesting how the buzz goes away in a dense mix. Depending on the music setting, worrying about a little buzz is probably pointless.

[cheyenne]

All my basses buzz a bit when played acoustically. Some of my bass playing friends cant deal with any buzz. I guess its all in what you like to hear. To me, fret buzz is an important part of the overall "growl".

[cassius987]

Played acoustically, a little buzzing is fine and probably to be expected (you are probably playing harder in order to hear yourself). I don't want to hear it through the amplifier, though. (And presently I don't, thankfully.)