4003 tone control issue

Vintage, Modern, V & C series, Fretless, Signature & Special Editions

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iiipopes
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Re: 4003 tone control issue

Post by iiipopes »

maxwell wrote:Also, as you heat the top spot of the pot where the wire will be soldered, the wire isn’t there yet. Once the pot spot is hot, positioning the wire and flowing / reheating pre-applied solder goes very quickly — minimal heating / short term heating of the wire. But when you remove the wire, as you can see, the wire is already part of the assembly that unavoidably gets heated for as long as it takes to melt the solder and remove the wire.
Oh, where did my typing go just then...I think you all got the point, pun intended. It should have read, "...and instead of using an insulation stripper, the cloth insulation is pushed back...." Now along with that, as Maxwell said, pre-heated solder is used, and the combination of the flux and wire helps the solder flow up the wire, especially if the wire is treated with flux before soldering. Note that the wire is usually stranded wire, not solid, and not just to be more flexible, but to provide a way for the solder to flow with capillary action up the wire to solidify the joint.
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aceonbass
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Re: 4003 tone control issue

Post by aceonbass »

maxwell wrote:
aceonbass wrote:If you replace the existing pots without replacing the vinyl insulated wire, you'll melt a lot of the insulation with the heat required to remove the pots from it.
Is this the reason why someone could buy and use “vintage” cloth-covered wire?
That is indeed why I build wiring harnesses with cloth insulated wire. That and because most people like vintage style wiring in their Ricks, and that's what was used up till the early 70's. I probably build a couple hundred a year, and stock everything RIC used in different years.
tomdbass
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Re: 4003 tone control issue

Post by tomdbass »

aceonbass wrote:
maxwell wrote:
aceonbass wrote:If you replace the existing pots without replacing the vinyl insulated wire, you'll melt a lot of the insulation with the heat required to remove the pots from it.
Is this the reason why someone could buy and use “vintage” cloth-covered wire?
That is indeed why I build wiring harnesses with cloth insulated wire. That and because most people like vintage style wiring in their Ricks, and that's what was used up till the early 70's. I probably build a couple hundred a year, and stock everything RIC used in different years.
And that’s what I’m thinking of having done to this Ric. Early 70’s controls.
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Isaac
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Re: 4003 tone control issue

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maxwell wrote:
Isaac wrote:How did they solder the wires on, then?
Also, as you heat the top spot of the pot where the wire will be soldered, the wire isn’t there yet. Once the pot spot is hot, positioning the wire and flowing / reheating pre-applied solder goes very quickly — minimal heating / short term heating of the wire. But when you remove the wire, as you can see, the wire is already part of the assembly that unavoidably gets heated for as long as it takes to melt the solder and remove the wire.
Okay, that makes sense.
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aceonbass
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Re: 4003 tone control issue

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Here's a link to 70's style harness I sell in my Ebay store so you can get an idea of what they look like.... https://www.ebay.com/itm/324083692433
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lumgimfong
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Re: 4003 tone control issue

Post by lumgimfong »

I say Tonestylers all around. No caps necessary.
If you want the brightest tonal selections use the guitar tonestylers in the bass. You can use them in basses. You just wont have the three lowest dub tone type settings. But will have brighter settings. Each click gives your bass a different voice.
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Isaac
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Re: 4003 tone control issue

Post by Isaac »

lumgimfong wrote:I say Tonestylers all around. No caps necessary.
If you want the brightest tonal selections use the guitar tonestylers in the bass. You can use them in basses. You just wont have the three lowest dub tone type settings. But will have brighter settings. Each click gives your bass a different voice.
I have basses that cost less!
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lumgimfong
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Re: 4003 tone control issue

Post by lumgimfong »

Just my take on the Tonestyler:

The Bass 10 short model is 99$. That's 200$ for the whole bass. No caps needed. A new $1500+ Ric is worth it for the total change in voicing you get in each of the 10 settings.

It is tantamount to having 9 different caps values and a true bypass per pickup, but it isn't caps. Its filter settings I think. And the "voice" of the instrument changes per setting, so you can get a lot more interesting sounds from the bass you never knew it could make. I used one on my Guild Starfire. Would like to put one on the Ric soon.

I recommend the guitar 10 because I don't see how someone needs the two lowest settings on the bass 10 unless you need crazy sub low end and the Stellartone owner told me the guitar tone stylers work great on bass if you don't want the lowest settings of the bass version and would rather have the brighter settings. I have the old Guitar 16 setting model. Worked out great on my Starfire. Can get the bass crazy brittle bright, and still have plenty low end in the lower positions of the switch when I want it to sound deep bassy. Will put one on my bridge pup on the Ric some time hopefully.

There is a YouTube video of a guy demoing one on his precision bass. You can hear how the voicing changes with each flick of the switch.

It makes the bass more fun to play, to be able to get all those sounds out of it you never knew existed on your bass, at least in my experience. So to me, it is worth it and I don't want to replace a regular tone knob and cap with same when I can get so much more out of the bass with a Tonestyler pot.
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iiipopes
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Re: 4003 tone control issue

Post by iiipopes »

If you like stainless steel rounds and the bright clank version of Rickenbacker tone, then bypassing the tone control may be the way to go.

If you like the Sir Macca and others mellow tone with flats, then rolling off the stock tone control may be the way to go.

If you are a groove player, blues, roots, classic, etc., then adding a permanent .01 cap to ground (think about the stock wiring of "Golden Era" Fender Mustang basses) to tame the high end may be the way to go.

If you are a player that hasn't found his niche yet, or likes the stock wiring, or anything else undefined, then the stock wiring is the way to go.

Personally, I change the main tone cap from .047 to .033 to keep a little more mids in the mix, so when I have new strings on the bass I can roll off the tone control to about 8 to tame "new string zing" until the strings settle in, and can either keep everything up for maximum brightness, or roll off to a good mellow tone when desired.
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