Squire's other basses

The genius of Chris Squire

Re: Squire's other basses

Postby (just_bassics) » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:49 am

I'm with Miguel & Paul on this one, after a close listen with headphones. Sounds like any standard 4 string with a flange / octave effect. Gave me a chance to remember that, even if not one of the better "Yes" albums, there are some very strong vocal harmonies from Chris on this CD, as the "ethereal ending" of the CD illustrates.
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Re: Squire's other basses

Postby (ajish4) » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:02 pm

Got me guys,

I'm clueless to this kind of stuff.

A recent post from Billy I thought cool as well...

"The 8 string works in the same way a 12 string guitar does, for each note there is an octave... That said i discovered a cool trick that I learned from Chris which is to take the high octaves of the 2 top strings {D and G} and tune them to 4ths of the root notes being the lower octaves. Makes for interesting chords on the top. You can hear that trick in action as used by Chris on the song "Changes". I always assumed it was done with a digital pitch changer set to 4ths and learned it was the tuning trick, I leave mine that way now as well :)"

http://circa-kotf.ning.com/forum/topics ... basses-now
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Re: Squire's other basses

Postby (ram) » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:34 pm

Tony, just out of curiosity, when you do the 4th what notes are you choosing? If I recall correctly the 4th for the D would be G. So do you just have it the same note as the G string or are you an octave above that?
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Re: Squire's other basses

Postby (pacealot) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:43 pm

Billy's post on "Changes" is also not totally musically accurate - sorry, Billy. Chris' Ranney 8-string was tuned in fifths, not fourths, for the D and G pairs, so instead of D-octave D and G-octave G, it's D-A and G-D. It could be a terminology issue, since if the root of the string is the main string, then he could be saying that Chris tuned the octave strings down a fourth, but just to be clear, the interval is root-fifth. I seem to recall sussing it out from watching the 9012Live video back in the day.

I use the same sort of trick on one song with my Hamer 12-string where I tune the E and A strings as a root-fifth-octave power chord each, E-B-octave E and A-E-octave A. Much less subtle than Chris' use, but similarly challenging!

I believe Chris used the fifth-tuned Ranney on "Hearts" as well, and I think the lick in the middle of the 2nd verse of "Owner Of A Lonely Heart" might be it as well. Also, I'm pretty sure I can hear the same tuning trope on several of the bonus tracks on the Drama reissue - "Friend Of A Friend" I think has it in evidence for one.
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Re: Squire's other basses

Postby (pacealot) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:57 pm

In a similar line of melodic inquiry, Chris' fifth tuning follows the pattern of experimentation that guys like Mike Rutherford and Anthony Phillips were pursuing with 12-string guitars. On "The Cinema Show" Rutherford tuned his D pair to D-A and his G pair to G-E (a major 6th up, same note as the open high E), and on "Wise After The Event," Ant Phillips went even further, basing the whole song around the intervals of a 12-string retuned to an open C# chord. Fun stuff to play around with, but one must be very careful to choose chords and voicings!

Edit: I checked on Anthony Phillips' website at http://www.anthonyphillips.co.uk/features/tunings.htm, and he has the tuning for "Wise After The Event" listed there (though he's got it in C, and the recorded version is in C# - why quibble over trifles?). It's a pretty outrageous tuning. Glad to see that he's posted it for all the world to know and learn. Forum-appropriately, he played it on a Rick 12!
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Re: Squire's other basses

Postby (miguelbass) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:45 pm

Hello again, Paul. That's some fantastic info you provided, I didn't know about other players than Chris experimenting on departing from the standard octave on string pairs. As for the Yes stuff where the fifths were used, I recognised pretty much the same songs as you, as I wrote before on this topic

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=384937

Funny thing is that the tuning I used on my own composition was , as you said, previously experimented by Rutherford :) I didn't know about that. I took it from Chris tuning and fooled around. I do have to check that tune and Anthony Phillips too. Thanks for the great input on this great topic.

Greetings everyone

Miguel
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Re: Squire's other basses

Postby (pacealot) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:24 pm

Hi Miguel,

I must have missed your original 8-string post! Yes, it does seem that we've noticed the same Ranney/fifths stuff. I'm also a big fan of your videos and tips and insights - it's great to see someone sharing the Squire style with the world!

It's a very fun and neat technique to play with pairs (or triplets!) of strings in different intervals. I hope to get more creative with my Hamer 12-string in the future and explore more of that world. It can lead one into whole new areas of chordal and modal playing....
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Re: Squire's other basses

Postby (pekka) » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:13 pm

Found a Melody Maker issue from September 28th, 1974 and there's an interview of the man. A gear list is at the end.

Bass guitars:
Rickenbacker: 2 x 4-strings, 1 x 8-string
Fender: 4-string Telecaster, 4-string Jazz
Gibson: 4-string Thunderbird, 4-string Ripper, 4-string EB1 violin bass, double neck 4-string
Guild: 4-string fretless
Danelectro: 6-string Longhorn
Ampeg: 4-string stand up electric
Earthwood: 4-string acoustic bass

Sadly nothing about his amps. Still, the Ripper, EB1, Longhorn and the doubleneck Gibson were new to me, not to mention the Baby Bass and the Earthwood.
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Re: Squire's other basses

Postby (just_bassics) » Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:37 pm

I knew about the double neck Gibson, Chris used it to record the beautiful ending passage of "Safe", much in the same manner as Jimmy Page, whereas one neck is played but the pickups are turned off on that neck and cranked on the other, to get that very reverberant "far away" (Over the hills & far away) sound. He called that a "happy accident" in his FOOW narration. The part was played on the bass neck and amplified through the guitar side. Page would play the six string neck and use the 12 string pickups.

As for the other basses, while I know that he has a huge assortment of guitars and basses, many practically forced on him from guitar manufacturers, I still can't see him playing a Ripper - wasn't that Gene Simmons bass from Kiss Alive? :shock:

Putting together a complete list of Chris Squire's amps and FX rigs over the years could be the subject of an entire book in it's own right, if one could ever be written.
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Re: Squire's other basses

Postby (pekka) » Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:53 pm

just_bassics wrote:As for the other basses, while I know that he has a huge assortment of guitars and basses, many practically forced on him from guitar manufacturers, I still can't see him playing a Ripper - wasn't that Gene Simmons bass from Kiss Alive? :shock:


IIRC, Gene had the Grabber, the one with the sliding pickup and a bolt-on neck. Famous Ripper players include Greg Lake, Rick Danko and Peter Cetera.
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Re: Squire's other basses

Postby (just_bassics) » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:37 pm

I'm sure you're correct, as I'm no expert on Gibson basses, plus all the smoke and haze of the 70's... :lol:
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Re: Squire's other basses

Postby (ram) » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:56 pm

I liked the Ripper sound just could never get a good feel with the necks.... to me the 4004 has a Ripper like sound but as if it was on Rickenbacker steroids!
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Re: Squire's other basses

Postby (BAD RONBO, KiLLeR DWaRfS) » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:41 am

pekka wrote:
just_bassics wrote:As for the other basses, while I know that he has a huge assortment of guitars and basses, many practically forced on him from guitar manufacturers, I still can't see him playing a Ripper - wasn't that Gene Simmons bass from Kiss Alive? :shock:


IIRC, Gene had the Grabber, the one with the sliding pickup and a bolt-on neck. Famous Ripper players include Greg Lake, Rick Danko and Peter Cetera.



gene also used the ripper for a little while after the grabber around '76 as they were sponsored by gibson in all those milk n' honey years ! rick danko used a tobacco burst g3 which was a grabber with three clear single coils designed by bill lawrence and four rippers.
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Re: Squire's other basses

Postby (BAD RONBO, KiLLeR DWaRfS) » Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:51 pm

pacealot wrote:I'm with you, Miguel - I went back to listen to it, and it doesn't sound like an 8-string to me either. The only thing I could imagine while I was listening was an 8-string tuned BEAD, but that still doesn't explain the timbre. When he goes up from B to D, it clearly sounds like an open D string, which it wouldn't be even if it were a BEAD-tuned 8-string. I agree, some sort of 4-string with an octave divider, maybe the Electra or even something weirder (for CS at least). It sounds pretty "modern," so one of his Mouradians might even be involved - or maybe even a 4-string Spector! Just taking a few wild guesses.... :o


my mutron octave divider will track down to an "A" on bass as long as there are no overtones to track but gets warbly any lower than that. i remember the whammy pedals used to track really well in divide a lot lower than the mutron or multiply to get the eight string effect in real analog time, plus you could sweep the pedal and get a lot of crazy in-between notes. i hate having to play higher on bass to get a lower effect with the pedal...just play the regular note, divide and kill !
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Re: Squire's other basses

Postby (seyesbass) » Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:07 pm

Chris used the Earthwood acoustic on "Leaves Of Green" section of "The Ancient".
Its a monster of an acoustic bodywise and more akin to the Spanish acoustic basses that you see in old pictures.
John Entwistle is pictured with one on an old front cover of International Musician that I cant locate just now but if I find it I will post the photo.
I think I have that Melody Maker somewhere too.
They had a section called "Any questions?" that Chris Welch used to do.
As a sort of guide to how over the top the Topographic stage setup was can you imagine the hassle of the Earthwood on top of the Guild on a stand and the 4001 and the Jazz?
What an eternal pity it is that nobody saw fit to film any of the TFTO tour gigs.

PS..Jim Happy New Year!
Will PM you.
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