YES Show review 7/09/13

The genius of Chris Squire
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T.A.R.
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Re: YES Show review 7/09/13

Post by T.A.R. »

Great write up! 8)
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RickyBubba
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Re: YES Show review 7/09/13

Post by RickyBubba »

I'm leaning more and more to just go. I DID get to see them last August with Jon D. singing, and I was totally impressed. They had it pretty well together, so even though it is true, it is almost hard to imagine them being better.

I've got a couple of other peeps to try and convince to go with me.
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Billsbro
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Re: YES Show review 7/09/13

Post by Billsbro »

I hope you do go! Just think of this: How much longer will these guys be out there? I recently have been going back over the concerts I have seen (and not seen)...there is only one thing that bugs me: how much I kicked myself when I didn't go to see a great band when I had the chance. I saw the "Going for the One" tour two out of the three nights at MSG in NYC and I STILL haven't gotten over not seeing them that third night.

And by the way, what is different is that the guys are doing faithful versions of these tunes so many times, you are hearing versions of songs that either haven't ever been played or haven't been played this way since the earliest days. And you WILL hear "A Venture" which has never been played until this tour. And then there are the tracks on "Going for the One" that were played quite infrequently.

And the kicker is "Awaken." One can never hear that live enough.



Go

NOW!
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jps
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Re: YES Show review 7/09/13

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I saw Yes 4 times with Patrick Moraz! 8)
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mikeyesfan
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Re: YES Show review 7/09/13

Post by mikeyesfan »

Great Review.
I'm going 3 times in the next week. Can't wait to see them in the Round at Westbury.
HEY JIM, What's with 2 Pittsburgh dates..Jim is that just for you? hahaha
DevilsHandsAreAnIdolWorkshop
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Re: YES Show review 7/09/13

Post by DevilsHandsAreAnIdolWorkshop »

Billsbro wrote:I hope you do go! Just think of this: How much longer will these guys be out there?
Excellent point.
And by the way, what is different is that the guys are doing faithful versions of these tunes so many times, you are hearing versions of songs that either haven't ever been played or haven't been played this way since the earliest days.
VERY excellent point.

A comment about the few differences. Some tempos are slower, and some parts are simplified or omitted - particularly for Geoff Downes but true for all of them except Davison. Mostly it doesn't matter much, and for Howe it all depends how "on" he is that night as far as how close to the original it may be. I don't view these things as problems, and the differences are not large.

Howe does NOT play the searing riff at the end of "A Venture" which occurs on fade-out of the song on the album. Probably only appropriate for a fade, anyway; it's not really an ending.

"And You and I" is different in a couple of ways, and I do have a problem with both of them:

Squire plays the harmonica. Now, I've since been schooled that this is a tradition which goes back quite a ways, and I wouldn't know since the last time I saw them before the 2012 tour was the Drama tour. Apparently now "everyone" expects it. Honestly, if there are going to be deviations from the album form, I'd expect Howe's extended solo in "Yours is No Disgrace" that goes back to the earliest performances before I'd expect a hoe-down (!) jam on harmonica in the middle of AYAI. I can tolerate it, but I'm never going to like it.

The climax towards the end is now performed at a slightly slower tempo with emphasis on practically every beat. It's clear that it's an attempt to make it more grandiose than it originally was. Doesn't work for me; it was perfect the way it was. I'd liken it to stamping your feet while enunciating every syllable. It's bombastic and unnecessary.
And the kicker is "Awaken." One can never hear that live enough.
Beyond excellent.
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woodyng
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Re: YES Show review 7/09/13

Post by woodyng »

Yeah the harmonica and "big finish" have been attached to AYAI for a reallly long time now,i've come to expect it and actually enjoy both aspects. Another thing Chris has been doing forever,thats not on the original lp version is his Sly and the family Stone bass quote ( from "higher") during the instrumental rave up portion of "roundabout". I always liked it when Peter Banks would throw in quick little musical quotes from other songs,so i tend to like that addition,too.
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Billsbro
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Re: YES Show review 7/09/13

Post by Billsbro »

Excellent observations, DevilsHands. You cite several of the many aspects and differences of the current tour. You are absolutely correct. As Woody states, most of them do go back a few tours at least. What I want to say is that these elements are hallmarks of concerts in general and especially, concerts from long-touring (and aging) acts.

Because of this thread and especially, threads about the current tour from different sites I have been pondering all of the positive and negative feedback I have seen. Some of the feedback seemed valid and some was downright cruel. So even though no one here really asked for a long discourse on these things I feel like we have implied some of these bigger issues here so I have found myself thinking about the Big Picture...not just Yes but most live music. I want to try and put my thoughts into words and you all seem to be a good and thoughtful audience. I am not sure I am bright enough, experienced enough, or eloquent enough to do this huge area justice but I'll try to cover the basics.

First, many artists make records that include overdubs and/or have guest musicians. As we all know, the question for the artists when they play live is whether to just do a streamlined version or try to get as close to the recording as possible through various means. The former is easy...just play what you feel is essential. The latter is more complex. To do that one can have additional musicians on stage; 3 piece groups like Green Day often have a rhythm guitarist or a keyboardist join the band to flesh things out. Other 3-piece groups like Rush follow a high-tech approach by having each of the members trigger samples and sequences to replicate more of the original composition. The Who did some of that. That can work well but train wrecks can easily happen when technical things go awry. Of course some bands use full backing tracks as opposed to triggered samples. Many fans have very strong reactions to these various choices...some folks hate the "tricks" but yet others feel "cheated" when the performance doesn't match the recording. Led Zep always seemed so thin to me live because they had quite a few guitar and keyboard overdubs on the records. Jimmy just did what he felt but John Paul Jones way overachieved by playing 43 instruments at once (I exaggerate for effect of course.) Naturally, it is the band's choice and I don't think I should complain when they choose one or the other.

And then there is a class of performers that cannot seem to get very close at all. Mick Jagger always seemed to have a completely different voice live. It seems like he just phones it in. And this is not new...he has done that for a few decades IMHO. There is that concept of embellishment too...Chris Squire is doing that with the harmonica bit. Vocalists have often done that. Phil Collins gave a very-close rendition vocally on the Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering tours but then started to really add additional artifacts to his vocal lines. I found that it became much too excessive on latter tours and I felt the songs suffered for it. He seemed to delight in the power he had over the audience; the music seemed to take a back seat to the ego-laden performance. But some folks LOVED it! The more raw and intense bands usually did the opposite. They seemed to want to get the general sense and intensity right; note-perfect renditions were not the goal. One of the many lessons here is that you cannot please all of the people all of time.

But perhaps the most contentious issue is when a band or performer has been around for a long time. First, there are many live recordings to compare them to. Their history is not hidden...all their successes and failures are out there. In particular, many of us latch onto the few insanely great performances and we hold them to that standard and want every performance to reach those heights. Not really fair, is it? It is hard enough for them to hit the heights from the last tour but what about when that show was 10 or 20 years ago? Do we all want that same amazing show? Well sure! Of course. But is it fair to expect a 60 year old fellow to match the intensity or have the same chops as a 20-something? Well sometimes they can. A guitarist might be able to do that but can a drummer? Maybe. Would we expect Moonie to do the same fills today if he were alive? Probably not. I think that is one of the reasons Billy Bruford retired.

So back to Yes. Here on this site we are almost always extremely civil and nice. We all try to see the big picture. Over at the main Yes fans site they range from Yes Men (they can do no wrong) to Grumpy Old Men (they suck!). I am somewhere in the middle. I do remember the amazing shows form the 70's, both from my own experience and from recordings. I cannot do some of the things I used to be able to do so I try to have a heart. Have the members of Yes lost some ability or have they chosen to play less complicated lines? Well, I am not them so I don't know. And while I am a decent musician and a avid observer I am not professional in either area. I have not seem 30-50 shows like some folks, only 10. So since I cannot be sure I choose to keep an open mind. Like the old saying goes("I don't know how to describe art but I know when I see it") I have a hard time defining a great Yes show so I just plop myself down and I wait to be moved. I know when I see a great show. Yes has moved me every time I have seen them. Perhaps in different ways though. They are different but the same. Each show is different but has the same basic feel. I think you all can tell that I was moved by this show even though I recognized that Howe might have not played everything that was on the record. Squire doesn't leap like he did when he was 27. Alan doesn't hit as hard as used to. But i don't think that is necessarily bad. I don't think the music suffered the other night. Alan plays smarter now I think. Sometimes they all overplayed in the past at the expense of the song. And does Alan play the same as Billy? No. Did Wakeman play like Tony Kaye? No. Does Geoff play like either? No. Each musician brings something special to the stage. Each one lacks something. I want to see that though. I want to experience the differences. If I want the record I'll listen to the record.

And one more thing about getting older. Everyone does it. Some live out their lives on stage. Some people get better and better. Some people go backwards and embarrass themselves. I've seen it all. I think a good person to look at is Ravi Shankar. I saw him live and on film many times. The last few times I saw him he certainly had lost much of the speed and fire that he once had. But his spirit was always there. His passion was always there. His musicality got better and better. He blew me away that last time when he played with his daughter Anoushka even though SHE blew him away with technique and speed. But he still had lots to teach her. I enjoyed that last show as much as the first time I saw him.

I enjoyed this last show as much as the first time I saw them in 1977. Lots of things were different. Some songs in 77 were better...some songs 2 weeks ago were better. But every time I saw them I was honored to be in the same room as these guys. They ARE different. They ARE older. They HAVE made choices on what to play an what not to play. I WAS disappointed in some areas but on balance I was in hog heaven. I'd see them tomorrow if I could even if they played someone else's songs.

I hope I made some sense. Everyone in the audience has a valid opinion. None of us should force our view on someone else. I hope I don't come across that way. Thanks for listening!
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johnallg
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Re: YES Show review 7/09/13

Post by johnallg »

Very thoughtful and thought provoking, Steve. Thanks for taking the time to express your thoughts. Thank god musicians are not machines that can play the song the same each time. Live performances can be inspired and when things are going good and new inspiration takes hold, new magic happens. Ya gotta love it when that happens and they do also, and that's why they keep walking out on stage. Otherwise they'd get bored s**tless.
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Re: YES Show review 7/09/13

Post by DevilsHandsAreAnIdolWorkshop »

Billsbro wrote:Excellent observations...
Right back at you, a most awesome post. It inspired a lot of thinking. More thought is required before a proper response.
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Billsbro
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Re: YES Show review 7/09/13

Post by Billsbro »

Thanks, guys.

Mostly I was trying to reconcile my own conflicting thoughts because often in my life I have caught myself harshly reviewing recordings and live concerts because they didn't fit in with my expectations. It is hard not to have expectations, especially when we have a long history with a band we love.

But, as Robert Fripp says,"Expectation closes the door to what is happening in the moment."
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RickyBubba
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Re: YES Show review 7/09/13

Post by RickyBubba »

Very well stated Steve. I have also wondered that given how many countless times they have played a given song, do they just try and change it up to not feel like they are just turning the crank. I have felt that way a couple of times in a handbell choir where we play an old favorite again and again over the years. The thing almost puts me to sleep now, but I struggle to keep at it for everybody else.
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Billsbro
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Re: YES Show review 7/09/13

Post by Billsbro »

Isn't it fascinating what a range there is in music?

One extreme is "classical music." Most of the time, players are effectively "tied" to the score. While they are somewhat free with tempo and with other interpreted details, they are pretty much just re-telling the old tale, word for word. In many circles, if a performer strays too much they are very controversial and catch heat. (Think Glenn Gould.)

There is the obvious jazz approach where a tune starts with a standard melody (the head) and then the player improvise a little or a lot. At first the chosen melodies were from a fairly narrow range of "worthy" songs. But then cats like Coltrane broke that wide open by using "pop" songs like "My Favorite Things." He took a lot of heat for working out on that. Yet now it is a classic and well-loved example and people like Miles ran with that. He caught flak for using Michael Jackson tunes. Of course anything is wide open now.

The other extreme is pure improvisational music. And it is not just jazz either...there are extreme improv groups of most genres. Nothing is ever the same. The scene in San Fran in the 80's typified that. You would never know what would happen (neither would the musicians because nothing was set up in advance). Some of it was extremely "metallic" and collage-like.

Ironically, there are exceptions for all of these examples. For instance, in Medieval and Renaissance music, the written music was merely a guide or template. The player provided elaboration in the form of trills, turns and other tricky things and also decided how many times to play the various parts.

One of my favorite chaps is Brian Eno. His latest feelings involve a dislike of recorded music in that it always will be the same no matter when you play the recording. So he has developed generative music. It is just a set of basic rules but every time the process is started it is different. He thinks the apex would be recordings that never play the same way twice. His app "Scape" is--in my opinion--the single best app ever created in the realm of music. You create your own world of music with his app...it is never the same. It is endless fascinating. If you haven't checked it out I strongly suggest it. It is the best $6 you will ever spend. One fellow that has taken it a long way is Dave Stafford. Check out his websites.

Once again, most of us just react emotionally to all this and just say, "I like it" or "I dislike it." There is nothing wrong with that unless people start keeping other people from doing what THEY like.

Yes?
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ram
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Re: YES Show review 7/09/13

Post by ram »

"Isn't it fascinating what a range there is in music?"
+1
The only thing we can perceive are our perceptions - George Berkeley
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