Understanding Why We Speed Up the Tempo

[8mileshigher]

I don't mean to pose a silly question, but maybe some of you more experienced musicians can shed some light on a perplexing subject and suggest possible "cures". I play regularly with the same bunch of guys. None of us has any exceptional musical talent --- just a common shared enjoyment of playing "oldies." Why is it that certain songs seem to drive us into playing them with an ever accelerating speed or tempo, while other songs we can hold a steady beat ?

On different songs where the speeding problem occurs, I can not figure out if it is the vocalist pushing us faster, or the drums, or the guitars or bass. Some songs we start out fine and then by the time we get to the solo break, its chugging along real fast. As an example, we seem to have this speeding problem 90% of the time when we do Badfinger's "No Matter What" and we have rehearsed this song many times ... so it's not brand new.

Is there some general tendency for less-experienced players to end up pushing each other faster ? If we are in the middle of a song, and everybody seems to be accelerating, how do you more experienced players get everyone to slow it down, other than stopping the whole thing ? What sort of "speeding signals" do you more experienced players utilize, to communicate with band-mates in the middle of the song ?

Is a metronome the only solution ? Would appreciate any experiences or ideas that Forumites can share on fixing it, without stopping the whole song in progress. Thanks - Rich F.

[mfb]

IMO the drummer and bass are listening to the melody and not holding the tempo. The bass and drums are then following each other as the tempo quickens ... then the tacits come in.

That particular song has an interesting melody line. I bet the tempo starts speeding up ever so slightly pretty much from the start, so that when you get to the middle 8 it will be quite noticeable. The singer will sing "No matter what you are ..." slight rest ... "I-will-al-ways-be-with-you..." at this point the song will start to speed up slightly and barely noticeable and so on, and the tacits don't help either ...

When we did that cover we had a similar problem. We asked the drummer to hold back a little at the end of the line every time the singer belted out "No matter what ...", and to beat time with the sticks (holding back a little) during the tacit, it worked for us.

[jdogric12]

Sorry for the late reply!

That's a great question. thank you for posting it! Here's my two cents:

One of the main reasons we love music is because the brain likes to receive satisfaction following anticipation. In other words, the brain likes knowing that the next beat is coming up real soon, and really feels good when it actually happens. So what you're describing is simply the brain getting slightly 'bored' and pushing harder and harder for that fix. Music is like crack to the brain. Think about it, have you ever tried to go one week without listening or even HEARING any music? Even if you do, you'll probably have songs bouncing around in your head just to fill the void.

Practice with a metronome, or record yourselves and listen back with a metronome and you will really see whats going on, and will be in a better position to work on it. I tend to rush on bass. Jazz drummers hate me. I'm even worse on guitar/voice simultaneously, but hey, what do you want, blood?

[8mileshigher]

J-Dog and Manuel

Thanks for your input, anaylsis and ideas. Interesting that others had a similar acceleration problem with the Badfinger tune "No Matter What".
As a side note, what is a good value metronome ? Which brands give xxx features for the price ?

I like that idea of playing recordings against the metronome, afterwards, then its more democratic in reviewing our problem of accelerating the tempo. I would rather not be "picking" on the drummer and blaming him for leading us astray. I spoke about this subject to a very accomplished guitarist friend yesterday, and he immediatley jumped to the conclusion and was saying it's all your drummer 's fault.... which I don't feel is necessarily the case, as I know on a couple of tunes, I find myself accelerating tempo on my Ric. Another case in point being us doing a cover of the Byrds' "Turn Turn Turn", with its several variations in tempo throughout the song... these variations sort of gets me in the mental frame of anticipating, and keeping my guitar picking "ahead" of these tempo changes going on throughout the song. And we trade off doing vocal parts in T-T-T and I think that factor also influences some of these tempo-accelerations too, (like you mention J-Dog, about guitar-voice simultaneously)... so that's why I felt that collectively we were all pushing each other at various stages in various songs, in this speeding to the finish.

Glad to know, J-Dog, that we have a scientific explanation and that its just the mind racing for that fix and sensation of enjoying the music. Didn't the Ringo character in the Yellow Submarine cartoon say "It's all in the mind, ya know?" Regards - Rich F.

[mfb]

... I would rather not be "picking" on the drummer and blaming him for leading us astray. I spoke about this subject to a very accomplished guitarist friend yesterday, and he immediatley jumped to the conclusion and was saying it's all your drummer 's fault....

It's not picking on the drummer. It's suggesting that he hold the rest of the band back at some stages in the song.

Charlie Watts does it all the time, hence the speeding up/slowing down that is so prominent in many of the Stones songs.

[charlyg]

According to Carol Kaye, most drummers "rush". That was the one requirement in the audition to take lessons from her. You HAD to have good timing. She said, " I can teach you everything else. If you have bad time, I can't help you."

Having said that, I am working with a singer right now who controls tempo. The bad part is, he slows everything down to a crawl. If it is supposed to be slow, it's like a funeral dirge. He used to slow down every line, but we think we've cured him of that. Now, it's right after the intro, as soon as the vocals start the tempo slows, EVERY TIME WITHOUT FAIL!

[elysrand]

My bass clinic guest leader at North Texas State way back in the early Seventies (some old guy named Ron Carter) averred that the bass player, not the drummer, is the foundation of time and tempo. Everyone else, percussionist included, will inadvertently try to lead or lag, but none will succeed unless the bass player has lousy time or allows him/herself to be led. I always though that was profound, and it was a maxim that I always observed. Thank goodness I had a good internal metronome, one of the few benefits of Asperger's Syndrome

[jdogric12]

Yes, that's true, Elys.

[tamborineman]

Richard a comment on 'No Matter What'. As you noted a lot of us have had the same problem with that song.imho, That one's not easy, perhaps for this reason, the bass, drums and guitar are chugging out the bottom while the vocal is the counterpoint. Both parts need to be executed presicelly to get the desired effect [not to metion the harmonies]. The vocalist may be the problem. Hey BAD FINGER! those guys were great singers and were working with PAUL MC CARTNEY!
I love Bad Finger and have culled all their stuff. The only one I can pull off to my satisfaction is Baby Blue. Keep trying,I love the song

[8mileshigher]

Thanks everyone for sharing your insights and views on this matter.
It is interesting that a couple of you have mentioned specific experiences in dealing with "No Matter What"

Regards - Rich F.

[jwr2]

Anyone and everyone in the band can be the cause of speeding up songs. Quite often it can be a way to fight boredom or a way to fight stage fright.

Good timing is one of the hallmarks of a good musician

[tamborineman]

Good points Jeff.
Stage fright! The best layed plans and all the practice can go right out the window, if even one member of the band is stricken.

[BobKat]

My band has had issues with this song as well. In most cases, I can trace it right to me, the vocalist.

But some songs have so much energy to them, such as that song, that in a live situation, you tend to speed them up. Do you know that 'I Want To Hold Your Hand" is not an especially fast song? The tempo is pretty leisurely. But that song has so much energy, especially coming out of the bridges, that live bands run the tempo up.

[squirefan01]

I am seeing this problem in an original jazz tune that my new band plays. I am the bassist and am just trying to get in synch with these guys. The drummer is just OK overall I'd say (although who am I to talk as this is my first time playing with people).

As the bassist, I have tried to slow things down a bit when they are speeding up but nobody is following along, though after the song we all agree it was too fast.

Should I find as a bassist that If I really slow things down then everybody whould follow naturally, or are they more likely to follow the drummer?

Just wondering what I can do about this.

Thanks

[tennis_nick]

I am seeing this problem in an original jazz tune that my new band plays. I am the bassist and am just trying to get in synch with these guys. The drummer is just OK overall I'd say (although who am I to talk as this is my first time playing with people).

As the bassist, I have tried to slow things down a bit when they are speeding up but nobody is following along, though after the song we all agree it was too fast.

Should I find as a bassist that If I really slow things down then everybody whould follow naturally, or are they more likely to follow the drummer?

Just wondering what I can do about this.

Thanks

First thing to do is talk to the drummer about it now. chances are, he's listening to the melody. In my experience on both sides of the throne, this means he's listening to the melody and most likely to speed up or slow down. Let him know, He should know your bassline inside out, and that's all he should be trying to listen too.

Drummer listens to the bass, the bass follows the bassdrum. Bam, you are in the pocket. the rest of the band follows you, and that's how groove is made.