Songwriting...need advice and help

[tennis_nick]

Right, I talked to Jacob, and he told me that he'll work and add on to something if I get the majority of it written. Wish me luck, this is going to be tougher than I thought.

By the way, the riff has a bit of Kinks influence in it, I think.

Funny this thread would happen... I was washing my hands and came up with a tune... sorta like a fast blues number like Killing Floor, Hendrixy feel, drum intro, LOUD.

[jdogric12]

I have capo'd basses before. Nothing wrong with that.

I've actually only done this recently, for use on a cheap acoustic electric bass whose neck just doesn't like standard tuning. I leave it tuned down a half step and capo 1.

[Clint]

My only advice to you may be too late, since you have already divided your question into eight parts. DON'T OVER THINK IT.

[antipodean]

Wow, a lot of great responses. I'll just add this somewhat bleak comment to help keep things in perspective:

90% of the songs everyone on the planet writes are complete ****. Don't get discouraged if you're not getting the results you want, just write MORE.

And always give stuff the shelf test.

Ah, the voice of experience!!!

J-Dog is absolutely right - if you don't produce a reasonable amount of garbage, you're either a genius, lazy, or too gentle a critic.

Don't be scared to experiment with covers as a first step Jake. A few changes to an old favourite can make it distinctively yours and kick you along the writing path.

And finally: if you make a habit of being creative with music, inspiration will hit you in the weirdest places. I wrote my first two songs in Math class when I was your age... a long time ago. Pythagoras was explaining his theory at the time, and I got bored...

[qwezirider]

One other thing to keep in mind: don't be emotionally married to your music, especially if you intend for others to play it with you. By that, I mean don't be absolutely closed to other ideas people bring to the table. That kind of works hand in hand with the shelf test mentioned before. You can have a total **** piece that has a spark of something useful. And that spark may not be realized until someone else adds their spark to yours.

I do a yearly collaboration fest in another forum. Maybe 125 people put into 20 or so teams of musicians. Most everything that comes through there in the demo phase is, to my ears, utter ****. Useless drivel. But man oh man, you should hear those gems when 6-7 other people get their hands on your music. Don't be so tied to your writing that feelings get hurt when someone else throws their interpretation into the mix.

[paologregorio]

I was talking to Jacob today, and he said that we probably won't get anywhere if we constantly cover other people's music. I totally agreed with him, and after a few ideas being tossed, it came to the idea that I should start writing songs. I told him it's hard because I couldn't write a song to save my life!

I need tips on writing. I'm about to write my first song this weekend (hopefully starting tonight after I study for an English test), and I need to know a few things:

1. When writing, should I have an instrument on-hand so I can make up riffs and chords as I go along? Or should I write the song first and then pick out chords and riffs?

Whatever hits you first; there's no one way to write a song.

2. Is it better to have a solo or no solo?

It depends on the song; a good solo, if included in a song at all, should emphasize an emotion or sentiment expressed in the song. Nothing's worse than sticking a solo in a song just to show off a guitarist's technical skill, or a solo that just in no way fits with the rest of the song, or is a typical rock blues solo; If I hear something like that I'll just walk out of the room-if it hasn't put me to sleep first.

3. Suppose that Jacob's voice range is different from mine. How do I accomodate the song so that it fits his voice range?

He can drop an octave, or you can transpose it to a key that fits his range. Or you can just have his voice and vocal range in your head from the start and write accordingly.

4. If I want call-and-response backing vocals, how do I work them in?

You'll figure it out; it depends on the song. Trial and error.

5. Is there any topic besides love that I can write about?

Love can get really boring to sing about, and listen to, at times, so don't go out of your way to sing about it. If you're inspired to do so, go for it.

Anything but politics or religion is probably okay. You could probably write about those as well, but then your lyrics will probably tend to sound preachy, and you'll end up annoying half of your audience.

6. Do I write parts for the other musicians (bass, drums)? Or just play the song on guitar at rehearsals and have them write their own parts?

If you have a good idea for a part for someone else's instrument, suggest it diplomatically, but give them enough room to put their own twist on it.

7. When writing, what is the one thing NOT to do (I'm sure I'll get a few responses for this 'un)?

Do not use cliches such as "baby", "yeah", or "all night long" in your lyrics under any circumstances!

and lastly...

8. Will you guys be able to proof anything I write, and help me out with chords, riffs, solo, etc?

Everyone will have their own opinion on a song, and people have different tastes, so that may or may not work out; be somewhat open to criticism, but be your own judge, critique your work against the songs of artists you like and from those songs, study what works and apply it to your own material.

Anything you guys can help out with will be appriciated! Who knows? I may cover only at home if my first song(s) go well.

Have fun with it, and good luck.

[kiramdear]

Do not use cliches such as "baby", "yeah", or "all night long" in your lyrics under any circumstances!

:shock:Oh Paul, but we love that kind of stuff

[antipodean]

Do not use cliches such as "baby", "yeah", or "all night long" in your lyrics under any circumstances!

:shock:Oh Paul, but we love that kind of stuff

Yeah baby, we could listen to that stuff all night long!

[scotty]

[kiramdear]

How about "mama/papa", "honey", "Woah!", or "to the bone"? Guess those are out too

I'm depressed now.

[paologregorio]

Do not use cliches such as "baby", "yeah", or "all night long" in your lyrics under any circumstances!

:shock:Oh Paul, but we love that kind of stuff

Yeah baby, we could listen to that stuff all night long!

In that case, my advice is to play as much music as possible with those words words in the lyrics to get it out of your system. I almost drop kicked our singer across the studio the last time he tried to throw a "yeah" in a song, but that was over ten years ago.

[scotty]

how about a Sha La La la then?

[JakeK]

"Yeah", "baby" and "all night long" were some of Bo Diddley's favorite words to use.

I just wrote a new riff, this time inspired by The Who, with some hard flourishes in the rhythm guitar. I need to write some lyrics, but I'll give you guys a hint on what this new song is about: That girl who led me on last year at school

[antipodean]

Careful Jake... when using your own painful experiences as inspiration, you can be too close to the subject to be able to evaluate the quality of your work. I waited 25 years to write a song about a break-up, and then made sure it was firmly tongue-in-cheek.

If you ever want a guide to writing songs that aren't about love, but also aren't too heavy, you should check out "Stoneage Romeos" by the Hoodoo Gurus. Apart from the first and last songs (kind of "love gone wrong" songs), they cover B-movie themes and tragedies: abduction by a mad scientist; the (willing) sacrifice of a Polynesian princess to a volcano; the destruction of the city of Darwin by Cyclone Tracy at Christmas, 1974; the captain of the Flying Dutchman; the life of a failed Kamikaze pilot; a conversation with a suspicious stranger regarding the romantic town of Zanzibar; and the tragic death of their (imaginary) first bass player. Oh, and the album rocks in a jangly guitar-drive way too, though more Gretsch than Rick. It just goes to show you can write a song about anything without being as inately brilliant, or serious, as Dylan.

[jimk]

Just musing here....

For years and years I found romantic subjects of any sort difficult to write about without descending into cliche ridden drivel. I must have a notebook full of some of my drakj somewhere. I think it took me a good 15 years to write what I consider to be my first decent love song...and that one was the only song I have ever had a co-writer. I initially came up with the melody, first verse, and chorus, he supplied the second and third verses. After singing this draft for a while, I suggested some changes to the second and third verses, and the song was complete. I've never recorded this song, but I'd like to using my future Rick 12 string. I think the opening guitar riff would sound very nice all jangly and chiming.

My lyric voice seems to lend itself to traditional folk, country, folk-rock, or country-rock sorts of sounds, as opposed to the two-and-a-half minute rock'n'roll kind of songs. Not sure why. I've also been pretty satisfied with those lyrics that lend themselves to blues, or blues flavored melodies.

So I guess that the style one develops, or the voice a song writer develops is an amalgam of the kinds of music one listens to, and the kinds of guitar licks, or styles one gravitates toward, assuming that the guitar is the primary instrument used in melody composing.

JimK