which chord is this?

Putting music theory into practice

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Re: which chord is this?

Postby (captsandwich) » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:14 pm

Open C moved up a couple, some may refer to it as Cmuc


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Re: which chord is this?

Postby (Hotzenplotz) » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:23 pm

captsandwich wrote:Open C moved up a couple, some may refer to it as Cmuc


What do I win?


The right to play this chord! :wink: :lol: :lol:


One more question Cmuc does not describe the "new position" of the C exactly, does it?
So, something like CmucD? And as an E based one CmucE?
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Re: which chord is this?

Postby (captsandwich) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:13 pm

Hotzenplotz wrote:One more question Cmuc does not describe the "new position" of the C exactly, does it?
So, something like CmucD? And as an E based one CmucE?



No, "a couple" implies 2. The second chord you describe us Cmuf or C moved up four.

:D
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Re: which chord is this?

Postby (Hotzenplotz) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:24 pm

O.K.!

Did not know it before.
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Re: which chord is this?

Postby (antipodean) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:51 pm

As an aside - isn't this chord used in the verse of REM's "Man on the Moon"? If memory serves the verse is C to Dadd9add11 - a very simple and effective pattern....

... and, to throw a cat amongst the pigeons, this chord could also be Em9/D - the fifth being redundant, as is often the case with 9th and minor 9th chords... e.g. I play Em9 as x7577x or x75770 - not a "B" in sight!
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Re: which chord is this?

Postby (prjacobs) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:30 am

jdogric12 wrote:"Chord" implies "function." This collection of notes does not have a function in the western idiom (besides sounding very cool). This is just a D with added color tones. Sorry.

At one time in music history, what we call a simple "seventh" chord (particularly, its embedded tritone) was not even allowed, thus, was "not a chord" either.

But I think at some point there has to be a limit. Dmajorsus9add11 just does not instantly register in my mind like 7b9 or #5 or m6. And I don't think the problem is with me! :wink: 8)


Respectfully, I have to disagree with your first statement. In most basic terms, I could argue that every chord has a function. Simplistically, chords either state a key or have a dominant function, i.e. getting us from one key to another. This chord could clearly have a dominant function. The G and E, and any suspensions, traditionally function as a dominant, as most simply in a Dsus4, where the G resolves to the F#. It could be argued that the E resolves to a D. So you could imply IV, I. Also, depending on the voicing or the instrumentation, the F# sounding with the G becomes less problematic. For example, if the low strings in an orchestra were playing a D and F# and winds played the G and E in a high register, the maj.3rd and the 4th, root and 2nd could easily coexist. It's still going to usually function as a dominant. Something's going to resolve. Suppose we leave every note the same and raise the G up a 1/2 step to a G#. We then have D,F#,G#,D,E.... An E9.... Heck, we can even play the open low E. My point is that the chord is most basically dominant.
The way I was taught, with the exception of a major 6/9 chord, you cannot call something the 9th or 11th unless some kind of 7th is in the chord. So, I might call this chord Dsus2sus4. pr D add2add4. I think understanding how you want to use it is more important than it's name and in the end, there's no definitive answer :) . What works for me may suck for you. I've also found that most chord books are written by people who are clueless in terms of real harmonic knowledge and often miss the subtle chords.
I also respectfully have to take issue with your defining chords by the rules of the church, who thought that tritones were evil. If I use your chord implies function theory than any chord with a tritone functions as a dominant, or legitimate chord. And clearly the church's viewpoint had nothing to do with harmony. As.... ahem.... with pretty much everything.... the church was in denial and way behind the times.
To the original poster. What chord came after this. That would show you if it was functioning as a dominant or tonic. (And I use tonic in a very loose sense, as in just stating a key.)
To rickendelic. You resolve the chord with x5443x, so clearly it's functioning as a dominant for you.
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Re: which chord is this?

Postby (Hotzenplotz) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:16 am

@prjacobs: After this chord I play a C open chord.
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Re: which chord is this?

Postby (jdogric12) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:53 am

boo yah.
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Re: which chord is this?

Postby (Hotzenplotz) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:03 pm

Why? :?

Sorry, some language problem! I mean a normal tuned guitar with the normal "campfire music" C, x32010 (or 332010, what I like, too.)

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Re: which chord is this?

Postby (prjacobs) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:38 pm

Hotzenplotz wrote:Why? :?

Sorry, some language problem! I mean a normal tuned guitar with the normal "campfire music" C, x32010 (or 332010, what I like, too.)

This is what I play!


Hi Sasha,
I would imagine that after you go to the C chord, you have some feeling of resolution.
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Re: which chord is this?

Postby (Hotzenplotz) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:37 pm

prjacobs wrote:Hi Sasha,
I would imagine that after you go to the C chord, you have some feeling of resolution.


Yes! It is played as slower 6/8 beat, some growling progression before, resolved (? - or how to call?) in a "Dadd2add4" followed by C, one time repeated.

It brings a lot of nice ringing sound. - Looking at Your avatar You know what that means in a toaster and tube combination, don't You!?! (Rrrrrrrrrrrring!) Rickenbacker at its best!

I try to find out the special sounding chords that discover the character of a Rickenbacker. George Harrison did something interesting, creating the first "A Hard Day's Night" chord: He listened very carefully to his new instrument and allowed it to write a bit of the song! Impressing idea!

Is Yours a 12-string? Can't see exactly in that picture.
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Re: which chord is this?

Postby (prjacobs) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:07 pm

Hotzenplotz wrote:
prjacobs wrote:Hi Sasha,
I would imagine that after you go to the C chord, you have some feeling of resolution.


Yes! It is played as slower 6/8 beat, some growling progression before, resolved (? - or how to call?) in a "Dadd2add4" followed by C, one time repeated.

It brings a lot of nice ringing sound. - Looking at Your avatar You know what that means in a toaster and tube combination, don't You!?! (Rrrrrrrrrrrring!) Rickenbacker at its best!

I try to find out the special sounding chords that discover the character of a Rickenbacker. George Harrison did something interesting, creating the first "A Hard Day's Night" chord: He listened very carefully to his new instrument and allowed it to write a bit of the song! Impressing idea!

Is Yours a 12-string? Can't see exactly in that picture.


Yes, mine's a 12 string. I grew up with the Beatles but never had a 12 string until recently. To me, what George did so well and what the Beatles did so well is that they used the 12 string as a color, not wall to wall. (Constantly playing it :) )... It's an amazing sound!
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Re: which chord is this?

Postby (jdogric12) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:01 am

prjacobs wrote:
Hotzenplotz wrote:Why? :?

Sorry, some language problem! I mean a normal tuned guitar with the normal "campfire music" C, x32010 (or 332010, what I like, too.)

This is what I play!


Hi Sasha,
I would imagine that after you go to the C chord, you have some feeling of resolution.

:roll:


I didn't realize they started teaching music theory on the backs of cereal boxes.
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Re: which chord is this?

Postby (prjacobs) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:19 am

jdogric12 wrote:
prjacobs wrote:
Hotzenplotz wrote:Why? :?

Sorry, some language problem! I mean a normal tuned guitar with the normal "campfire music" C, x32010 (or 332010, what I like, too.)

This is what I play!


Hi Sasha,
I would imagine that after you go to the C chord, you have some feeling of resolution.

:roll:


I didn't realize they started teaching music theory on the backs of cereal boxes.


Jason, I'm new to the forum... Help me out here. I assumed that this is a section to discuss music theory? My comment to your initial post was done respectfully and meant to continue the discussion. If you have some musical knowledge you'd like to share about chord theory, or music theory, please enlighten us all. Or if you have any intuitive thoughts about how you hear this chord or chords in general, bring it on. I'm trying to keep this civil.
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Re: which chord is this?

Postby (jdogric12) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:27 pm

Ok, sorry I was snarky about it. I was just saying that D to C is not a resolution. D to G would be a resolution, but not much of one, if you've already gone and thrown a G note into the middle of the D chord voicing, essentially spoiling the end of the movie.

All these fun wacky "chord" names are kind of like naming a new species for all the billions of mutts in the dog and cat world. Oooh look it's a Dmaj7sus9#4b13! How cute! It still sounds cool, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. In this case, the E and G over the D chord are merely "color tones."

And while I'm certainly no expert, I do have a bachelor's degree in music from an AACSB accredited university and specialized in theory and composition while I was there (to answer your question).

Seriously, I think the "resolution" you hear on C is really just "relief" at being freed from all the dissonance in the DEF#GA cluster. Man On The Moon is the first song I thought of when I first read this thread, and that's how it operates there. I avoided the word "function" because that would imply a direct result exists.

Sorry I was jerky with the cereal box crack. Please don't let your feelings get hurt, it's just a guitar forum! And welcome! :D
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