Popularity of Rickenbacker Lap Steels

[admin]

Not owning a Rickenbacker Lap Steel (shame on me I guess) it is difficult to get a feel for how they compare to other Lap Steels made by other manufacturers. Are you able to comment on Rickenbacker's standing in the Lap Steel or Steel market? Are Rickenbacker models as coveted in Steel circles as the 300 Series in guitar circles, for example? Is there one particular feature that is admired by collectors and players?

[rshatz]

Peter,
These are three great questions. Let me address each one individually and in reverse order.
1. In my opinion the one feature admired by players and collectors is the pre-World War 2, horseshoe pickup with the 1.5" wide magnets. It has a very fat, well balanced tone, and it is very loud. Many steel players consider it to be the best steel guitar pickup ever made.
2. I don't know how sought after 300 series Ricks are. However,I can say that collectors and players alike try to find the pre-war bakelite model and the frypans. The players instrument is the bakelite model, with strings loading through the body. This is the one David Lindley plays on Jackson Brown's, Runnin' on Empty. The frypan is the collectors instrument. They also sound great, and they are very rare in originial working condition. The pre-war bakelite models are now selling for $750-$800 in excellent condition. The A-25 frypan with the engraved "Electro" headstock like the one in the photo on this site is extremely rare, and is considered almost priceless. I have been offered $3000 for mine. I have never seen one for sale in any music store, that I have visited. I have only seen one listed on Ebay in the last two years. It was not in original condition and sold for about $1400. The other very collectable model is the Silver Hawaiian. In excellent condition, these sell for $750-$1000.
3. Rick's standing in the lap steel market is very strong, but this is mainly for the pre-ww2 instruments I mentioned above. The only instruments that are as, or more collectable than these Ricks are the Gibson metalbody and the Gibson EH-275.
The only really collectable post-war instrument are the Model G, or post-war version of the Silver Hawaiian and the Bronson Model 52. All the others are considered to be good players pieces, but not particularly collectable.

[admin]

Thanks Richard. You response is much appreciated. As a followup, you make mention of the horseshoe pickup with 1.5 inch magnets. I understand taht later models used 1.25 inch magnets. Does the sound of the horseshoe with the 1.25 inch magnet pale by comparison or is the output just slightly less. Can the difference in voume be made up by increasing the volume of the amplifier? Are there pronounced tonal differences between these two pickups as well?

[admin]

Richard: Do you know why Rickenbacker International Corporation stopped making horseshoe pickup with the 1.5 inch magnets and replaced it with the less popular 1.25 inch magnets.

[rshatz]

Peter,
There is no documentation regarding the reason or reasons for this specification change, but after carefully examining a prewar Model B and BD side by side, several possibilities emerge.
1. There is much less metal in the postwar pickup making it less expensive to produce.
2. The postwar pickup was housed in one piece of metal that held the bridge and also served as the tail piece. This part takes up much more space on the same size body and may have necessitated narrowing the pickup.
3. It is also possible at that time that they felt that the sound produced by this pickup was just as good or better than the wider pickup, even though it did sound different. The early postwar pickups sound terrific. It is interesting that in the early 50's the pickup was further internally modified to produce a much brighter treble. This is said to have been done to the shift in popularity from a Hawaiian to a country music sound.

[admin]

Thanks Richard. These are interesting hypotheses based on the comparison of the B and BD models. As a follow-up, do you suppose if Rickenbacker International Corporation was able to produce a reissue of a Lap Steel that included a 1.5 inch pickup that it would be a successful venture? In addition, what model do you think would capture the most interest from Lap Steel players? Lastly, would there be interest for such a model in the current market?

[rshatz]

Peter,
The early frypan has been newly duplicated by the Excel company. http://www.fuzzypsg.com/4e.html The instrument is made in Japan. I understand it sells reasonably well. It is produced in both six and eight string models and in 22" and 24.5" scales. It has a 1.5" magnet. I have played this steel. It is very good. Unless RIC could produce something better and cheaper, I don't think it would be particularly successful in the current market. There are also a number of other companies producing lap steels in many styles and configurations. If they are profitable, I don't think they are greatly so.

As to which model would capture the most interest from players, I would have to say that a strings through body Bakelite would be it. The old ones are still the most sought after by players and collectors alike.

How much interest a Model B reissue would generate is very questionable. Production costs would be quite high resulting in a high retail price, probably higher than the cost of a good vintage instrument. My guess is that there are enough new and used lap steel guitars on the market to satisfy most tastes and needs.

[admin]

Richard: I guess this copy of the Frypan speaks volumes with respect to the regard held by Lap Steel players for Rickenbacker instruments. I think it bears repeating what Jerry Byrd has to say about Rickenbacker Lap Steels from days gone by. In his words Quote:A replica of the first electric steel guitar ever made. Introduced in 1931, the original Rickenbacker "Frypan" became the standard by which every succeeding manufacturer strived for. They were sought after the world over (they still are by collectors) and fast became the No.1 seller in the U.S.
These instruments had a lovely soft sound and the sustain was, and still is, unsurpassed.
I think RIC could still make a vintage reissue that would do very well given the resurgence of interest in the playing and collecting of vintage lap steels.

[admin]

I have posted the 22 and 24.5 inch models of the JB-8F Frypan by EXCEL below. A six string model, the JB-6F is also available.

[Carl]

Having been a Jerry Byrd fan for over 50 years, I am indeed interested in Rickenbacker lap steels. I bought a book sold by Ederly Instruments on Rickenbacker and "ate" every word concerning lap steels. Most of the book which concerned regular guitars did not inteterst me at all, albeit I recognize I would be in a great minority here.

I wish to comment on several things mentioned ealier about "pre war" Bakelites.

They are indeed sought after worldwide. Regardless of what anyone says, the tone they produced was NEVER equalled AFTER the war. Such things as reducing the width AND thickness of the horseshoe magnets, attaching strings to a metal tailpiece, using painted metal covers, etc. delineated the sound of what was the finest sound ever to come out of a lap steel guitar.

I realize that some closely associtaed with the parent company often vehemently rejected this notion. But the fact still remains that the greatest lap steel guitarist that ever lived or ever will live, Jerry Byrd, said these changes DID hurt the sound. I have to agree.

And it also bears note, that a preware, with 1.5" magnets, strings thru the body, chrome plates in lieu of painted plates, ALWAYS brings more dollars, everything else being equal, in today's market.

One of the bakelite models that Jerry Bryd did sooo many recordings on was his pre-war 7 string Rick. I hunted for one of these in good condition for over 40 years. Very proudly I found one several years ago. With the exception of two broken keys, one on each side, the guitar is in mint condition. The sound from this guitar has the famous "moan" that typified the sound coming from JB's earlier recordings. I am indeed greatful for this. Because NOT all Rick bakelites have it. And even those that do, some have it more than others.

NO one I have ever talked to knows why this is. I will give you an example:

At the same time I was searching for my 7 string, two other steel player friends were too. One is the famous Tom Brumley of the old Buck Owens band. The other is a gentleman who lives in San Antonio, Tx. Ironically each of us found our 7 strings within months of each other. All three of us gathered in Tom's home in Branson with our "prize" 7 string Ricks. Would you believe my Texas friend, Wayne Tanner's steel had the loudest "moan". Mine had it but was not quite as pronounced. But Tom's has hardly any. Yet all three instruments were practically identical. All manufactured before August 10. 1937.

The other thing I wish to comment on is the frypan "copies" that came out in the 70's and are still being made by Shot Jackson's wife and the Excel Corporation. And that is, the "look alike" Magnets are not magnets at all. They are simply pieces of metal that are shaped like the original magnets.

These guitars use a standard PU. That is, the magnets are actually inside the coil windings. Unlike the Rick PU's where the little pieces of metal under each string were non magnetic pole pieces.

It is thought bye some, (I am one), that the sound is altered a great deal from the orginal "horseshoe" magnets.

My point being, it is often sad indeed, that when a basic and proven design is altered, even by the parent company, NO one seems to want to go back and reproduce the original in every facet. I find this disconcerting.

Anyway these are my thoughts.

God bless you all,

carl dixon