1 1/4 inch vs 1 1/2 inch Horseshoe Pickup

[tulipguy]

Can someone tell me what exactly are the differences between the 1 1/2 inch pre-war horseshoe pickup and the 1 1/2 inch post ww2 version? I know eventually the horseshoes were not even magnetized..I'm not asking about that. Just the difference between the magnetized ones.

What were the reasons for the downsizing? Shortages/expense of magnetic material?

Is it mainly a gain issue or tonal as well?

This one detail seems to double the price of a vintage lapsteel so I'm curious about it.

cheers and thanks

[jingle_jangle]

I'm gonna theorize here that it was an attempt--for whatever reason--to produce a narrower pickup, with little or no tonal penalty.

The more valuable ones are that way because those magnets fit into basses and combos. Sadly.

[ryan.jones]

Too many poles

[jingle_jangle]

...Ummm, beg yer pardon?

[ryan.jones]

in the pickups

[ryan.jones]

for a bass with 4 strings

[johnallg]

Bass toasters have 6 pole magnets in them.....

[ben_brown]

...and the 8 string Steels have a 8 poles on their pickups.
IIRC didn't the older Jazz bass pups have 8 poles for the 4 strings?

[johnallg]

Jazz pickups do have 2 poles per string for a total of 8, but they are in groups of two.

[ryan.jones]

how many poles did mid-sixties 4001 bass horseshoe pickups have (NOT neck toaster pickups duh)

[ryan.jones]

is it not just four? is that not why you cannot take a 1.25 inch lap steel horseshoe out of a steel and just put it into a 4001 without also changing out or rewinding the pickup onto the right four-pole bobbin?

[ryan.jones]

the topic did not include toasters, am i wrong?

[ben_brown]

[johnallg]

Ryan, what I was pointing out was the 6 poles of the toaster cover the 4 strings of the bass just fine, so a 6 pole or better yet 8 pole steel coil would also cover the 4 bass strings. A soapbar type pickup is one long pole and it works fine on those instruments that have one. If you are really that worried about it, take the shoes off, remove the back bar magnet of a high gain, replace the nail pole pieces with long enough screws (or use a new adjustable pole high gain pup), and make up your own horseshoe pickup.

[rshatz]

I know eventually the horseshoes were not even magnetized..I'm not asking about that.

What were the reasons for the downsizing? Shortages/expense of magnetic material?

Is it mainly a gain issue or tonal as well?

This one detail seems to double the price of a vintage lapsteel so I'm curious about it.

Steve,
This thread has been taken a bit off subject, but let's get back to your questions.
I'm pretty sure that there were never any Rick horseshoe pickups whose magnets were not magnetized. I've never heard or read that anywhere. Let me know the exact reference if you have it.
I don't know the real reason for downsizing the magnets, but the theory goes that with the newer alloys, magnets of equal or greater strength could be produced with smaller magnets.
To my knowledge and way of thinking both pickups are fantastic. I have several of each. They all have great output, but the postwar pickups seem to have a little less low end and a more piercing high end. The prewar pickups sound better to my ear than the ones made from the mid-50s and later, but some of the early postwar pickups are incredibly well balanced and are similar but not identical in tonal quality to the prewar ones.
As far as lap steel prices go, the market has been strange recently. I don't think the prewar Bakelite models or the hollow metal bodies are anywhere near twice the price of their postwar analogs at least as far as Ebay auctions go. Yes, some of the earliest Model Bs can fetch a tidy sum, but the later prewar issues haven't recently gone much over $1k, unless I've missed something. I recently saw a postwar model B sell for more than that. The value of any instrument, especially esoteric ones, is determined by momentary supply and demand.
I could go on and on with this subject, but I think this sums up my opinion
These ramblings are just my opinions based on some experience and personal preferences, nothing more.