Since I've had my 325 Connection Website, I've had a particular interest in the '64 1996's. Especially the issue of soundholes. Over the last year I've had many submissions of 1996's. Surprisingly, the bulk of them 2 o'clock models.
Where it was previously thought that only the very early months of '64 saw 2 o'clock models shipped, my latest data shows that 2 o'clock 1996's were still being shipped as late as June. The full quantity of 201 1996's of both sorts having been shipped by about September. I currently have 36 1996's on file. 16 of them are 2 o'clock (Jan-June) 20 of them 1 o'clock (June-Sept).
The fact that up to 6 months of that year saw 2 o'clock 1996's shipped, and my data indicating close to 50% of each type, presents strong evidence that 2 o'clock 1996's are not necessarily rarer than 1 o'clock 1996's at all.
Just how rare are 2 o'clock soundholes on '64 export
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Virtually all 310 - 325's from 1958 up to about June of 1964 were routed with 2 o'clock soundholes. The only exceptions appear to be the very first handfull made, which could be as few as 4 guitars (including Lennon's V81, second off the line) I tend to regard these as prototypes because Rickenbacker quickly adopted the soundhole for this line and stayed consistantly with it. The only known reason for the soundhole being a possible marketing reason. To distinguish them as a hollow bodied instrument. One could easily assume them to be a lower end solidbody (without picking it up and feeling the weight)
Never seen a 1 o'clock soundhole on a production Ric of any model before the Rose Morris 1997's and 1998's in Jan '64.
We tend to go on about the 2 o'clock soundholes as being very desirable, which is true in that it is the older form. However, we should remember that the 310 - 325 was going through a re-invention in 'early '64. It took on a new sleeker look, with the thinner body, slimmest headstock ever, rounded heel, more rounded ramp to body area, new style white pickguards and name plate, and a new "Thin and Slinky" 1 o'clock soundhole.
Check it out. They are more in keeping with the image of the new slimmer 310-325's I think.....
Never seen a 1 o'clock soundhole on a production Ric of any model before the Rose Morris 1997's and 1998's in Jan '64.
We tend to go on about the 2 o'clock soundholes as being very desirable, which is true in that it is the older form. However, we should remember that the 310 - 325 was going through a re-invention in 'early '64. It took on a new sleeker look, with the thinner body, slimmest headstock ever, rounded heel, more rounded ramp to body area, new style white pickguards and name plate, and a new "Thin and Slinky" 1 o'clock soundhole.
Check it out. They are more in keeping with the image of the new slimmer 310-325's I think.....
I've just updated the 1964 section of my website to reflect the latest conclusions.
http://www.geocities.com/vintage325/325_3.html
http://www.geocities.com/vintage325/325_3.html
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joe_hardman
A random sampling of such a small grouping proves nothing and renders any conclusion highly suspect at best. However, first hand experience by those how have been in the 325/1996 market as serious buyers for the past 25 years does in fact indicate that 2 o'clock models are far rarer than their 1 o'clock counterparts.
yes it's true that I only have about a 20% sampling of the 1996's.
What I find interesting is the fact that the first 5 to 6 months production were 2 o'clock models and the following 2 or 3 months were 1 o'clock. One would think that Rose Morris wanted stock asap to meet the immediate demands due to Lennon's use. I find it hard to believe that Ric could only supply a small quantity of about 25 for the first 6 months, then suddenly produce 175 in 2 or 3 months. I suspect we might find that the UK market is where a lot of the early ones stayed, the 1 o'clock models appear to have been distributed to other parts of the world and perhaps may explain why they have turned up more readily. The UK ones seem to have been with long term owners for many years. This is the case with the spate of 2 o'clock models I've added recently. Generally long term UK owners who've not had much to do with the internet until recently.
What I find interesting is the fact that the first 5 to 6 months production were 2 o'clock models and the following 2 or 3 months were 1 o'clock. One would think that Rose Morris wanted stock asap to meet the immediate demands due to Lennon's use. I find it hard to believe that Ric could only supply a small quantity of about 25 for the first 6 months, then suddenly produce 175 in 2 or 3 months. I suspect we might find that the UK market is where a lot of the early ones stayed, the 1 o'clock models appear to have been distributed to other parts of the world and perhaps may explain why they have turned up more readily. The UK ones seem to have been with long term owners for many years. This is the case with the spate of 2 o'clock models I've added recently. Generally long term UK owners who've not had much to do with the internet until recently.
." I find it hard to believe that Ric could only supply a small quantity of about 25 for the first 6 months, then suddenly produce 175 in 2 or 3 months."
Has anyone considered that Possibly, I do not know for any certainty, but Possibly, the number of employees Rick had in the factory may have been only a few at the onset of the British invasion, and that it took at least a little more time to hire enough extra workers to help increase the production due to this overwhelming demand??Think about it....A lot of workers can make a lot of product; a few workers.....etc.
Has anyone considered that Possibly, I do not know for any certainty, but Possibly, the number of employees Rick had in the factory may have been only a few at the onset of the British invasion, and that it took at least a little more time to hire enough extra workers to help increase the production due to this overwhelming demand??Think about it....A lot of workers can make a lot of product; a few workers.....etc.
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voxtalks
Having seen some of the export docs from the spring of '64, I can tell you that the guitars were shipped in fairly decent numbers, in blocks so to speak. Without going into real specifics and violating any confidentiality, one particular month had around 25 1996s go along with 125 other different models too. So, it would seem that the factory did produce decent numbers at this time.
What's interesting to me is that the 2 o'clock 1996 made the '65 Rose Morris catalogue and not a 1 o'clock. No matter how you look at it, these export guitars (with either f hole) are rare. Something that John Hall and I discussed a few weeks ago was the constant overlooking of the RM export units that went directly to Australia, there were many.
What's interesting to me is that the 2 o'clock 1996 made the '65 Rose Morris catalogue and not a 1 o'clock. No matter how you look at it, these export guitars (with either f hole) are rare. Something that John Hall and I discussed a few weeks ago was the constant overlooking of the RM export units that went directly to Australia, there were many.
It's pretty strange all around. 1996's in the '65 catalogue. To date there are no known vintage 1996's that were produced outside of '64. There could have been '64 stock on hand though. Might explain why only 2 325's are listed in the production figures for '65. That's pretty astounding really. Considering the beatle wave was still riding pretty high.
As far as I've been told, all shipments went direct to Rose Morris UK in '64. They distributed to their branches in other countries. Rose Music in Australia being one. There were direct shipments to Australia in the following years. At least 25 1998's were sent direct in '66.
As far as I've been told, all shipments went direct to Rose Morris UK in '64. They distributed to their branches in other countries. Rose Music in Australia being one. There were direct shipments to Australia in the following years. At least 25 1998's were sent direct in '66.
Glen: Following up on Joe Hardman's comment, it would seem to me that you are in a good position to do some research on Rose Music. With a little luck you may find company invoices pertaining to OZ that may be of great interest. While there may be bias in such a sample, it is not unreasonable to assume that the findings may be representative of the proportion of 1996s distributed worldwide. This would make a wonderful article which I would be thrilled to post on the Rickenbacker Registration Page. I would be willing to assist you in such an endeavour should you wish to contact me directly.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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To add to Nick Thiel's last post...F.C. Hall was very aware of what was happening with The Beatles' growing popularity prior to their arrival in the U.S., thanks to Roy Morris; this could be why the shipments of 1996's were decent in early '64...A little forward thinking at this juncture put the company in a position to be somewhat ready to meet demand, although they would lose the 'backorder battle' in the long run...
My thoughts exactly. If there was one model that FC Hall would have made sure he was shipping as many and as soon as possible, I would expect it to be the 325 (1996). So if there were decent size shipments in those first few months, and they were making only 2 o'clock models in those months....
Unfortunately Rose Music went the way of it's larger brother Rose Morris. Changed hands several times through the years, with all old records long since disposed of. I've tried contacting the current owners of both companies with no success whatsoever.
Unfortunately Rose Music went the way of it's larger brother Rose Morris. Changed hands several times through the years, with all old records long since disposed of. I've tried contacting the current owners of both companies with no success whatsoever.