325c58 Output and Wiring

The short-scale model that changed history

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Re: 325c58 Output and Wiring

Postby (opticnerve) » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:51 pm

Thanks Glen!
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Re: 325c58 Output and Wiring

Postby (Knave101) » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:06 pm

I'll have my new overwound bridge and neck 325c58 pickups back in soon and will report on my "experiment" to make the guitar audible on stage.

In the meantime, take a look at this video and please explain why this 50's 325 with Kaufman can stay in tune, even with the lead player wailing on it....while mine goes out of tune just from looking at it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nDjWhtDujw

Interesting guitars in this video... 325 and Gretsch Jet. I've seen that before....
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Re: 325c58 Output and Wiring

Postby (Knave101) » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:35 pm

This appeared on the bay today. two rick pickups advertised as late 50's. With resistance readings of 8.7 and 7.7k. I'm still trying to determine the correct resistance of the late 50's 325's. If these are authentic, then that's significantly higher than the 3.5k in the reissue. Additionally, I'm not familiar enough with the model to know about the pickups with the extending pole pieces. Can anyone confirm these might be originally found on a 325 from 58'.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-59-Rickenb ... 257d2b3bca
RICK PICKUPS.pdf
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Re: 325c58 Output and Wiring

Postby (deaconblues) » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:33 pm

Those readings sound about right. The c58 reissue ratings were far too low.

All of the '58 325s I've seen have had the short-pole, sealed bottoms.

See Glen Lambert's post on page 1.
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Re: 325c58 Output and Wiring

Postby (Knave101) » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:46 am

Some news regarding the low output of the 325c58. I had the bridge and the neck pickup overwound by Tom Brantley. He has a page at https://www.facebook.com/tombrantleyrewinds

I can report that the output is much higher and much more useable. I still feel the tone is not too much different, but maybe that's just because I can finally hear the pickups. Tom didn't remove any of the original scatter winding but simply soldered to the end and kept winding. I used a spec of 8.5k for the bridge and 7.5k for the neck pickup. I left the center pickup unchanged. I came upon these numbers because a late 50's set of rick pickups were on the bay last year and that was the spec they had. If I had to do it again I would put the bridge at 7.5-8.5k, the neck at 5.5k, and the middle at 5.5k or unchanged. This is because I notice a slight increase in volume of the neck, even at the lower winding count compared to the bridge. I reckon this is due to the overall swing of the strings at the neck position compared to the bridge.

While this may not be the way it was "meant to be", it certainly makes the guitar usable live.

I sold my other two Rick 325c58 MG's to a couple gents in the UK. I hope they like them.
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Re: 325c58 Output and Wiring

Postby (deaconblues) » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:50 am

Good stuff, John.

I'll be sharing the details of my 325c58 project soon. I had the original pickups (rated at 4k) wound to correct spec at about 8K by Glen Lambert of this forum. He does incredible work -- the guitar sounds worlds better without those weak stock windings. My wiring scheme is such that I don't have problems with the balance of the pickups.
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Re: 325c58 Output and Wiring

Postby (Knave101) » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:42 pm

Thanks for that. I had to ask Tom Brantley to continue the current wind, because he really wanted simply to rewind completely. He's got a photo of my rewind there on his site in the photos section. I'm sure he's probably right...but there's something about 'original' or 'partially original'.

You're likely correct that a different wiring scheme where all three pickups operate independently would fix the issue with the output balance. But I'll likely disconnect the center pickup anyways. I've heard that the "real John" probably disconnected his. If anyone knows better, please let me know.

From close-up photos you can see that the silver is all worn off the top of his middle pickup...meaning he hit it a bunch I suppose, or had palmar hyperhidrosis and wore it off...so it makes sense to disconnect it, for a trial anyways...since I don't hear a lot of clicking in any of the recordings. However, that's my conjecture.
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Re: 325c58 Output and Wiring

Postby (Knave101) » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:30 am

https://www.facebook.com/tombrantleyrew ... =3&theater

Interesting how Tom Brantley wound up my pickups last year. They sound great.

"Here is a pair of pickups from a Rickenbacker 325c58. These were originally wound to a very low output of 3.8k. The customer found them to be unusable. He preferred that I extend the original windings to get to a beefier 8.8k output for fuller rounder tone. Each pickup had 4000 turns of 44 gauge wire added to the original coil. This allows the customer to return them to dead stock original condition if he so chooses in the future."

and here's a link to his modification of a long pole toaster, into a short pole flat back pickup.

https://www.facebook.com/tombrantleyrew ... =3&theater

just for your guys info.
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Re: 325c58 Output and Wiring

Postby (johnhall) » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:31 pm

Isn't this just precious?

Half the room is unwinding pickups and the other half is overwinding them.

I'm thinking we should supply pickups with an empty bobbin and a spool of wire so everyone can wind their own.
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Re: 325c58 Output and Wiring

Postby (cjj) » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:29 pm

johnhall wrote:Isn't this just precious?

Half the room is unwinding pickups and the other half is overwinding them.

I'm thinking we should supply pickups with an empty bobbin and a spool of wire so everyone can wind their own.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm sure you could charge extra for that...
I have NO idea what to do with those skinny stringed things... I'm just a bass player...
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Re: 325c58 Output and Wiring

Postby (Knave101) » Sat May 03, 2014 12:48 am

Thanks John for the kind words.
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Re: 325c58 Output and Wiring

Postby (knavel) » Sun May 04, 2014 1:18 pm

johnhall wrote:Isn't this just precious?

Half the room is unwinding pickups and the other half is overwinding them.

I'm thinking we should supply pickups with an empty bobbin and a spool of wire so everyone can wind their own.


I have gigged next to a 325c58 and the original pickups were so poor that I handed over my own back up guitar just so I (and the audience) could hear my bandmate.

Sir, we have 4 vintage Rickenbackers and all of them are wonderful to gig with. The comments in this thread are directed squarely at the decisions made in terms of this particular model.

Please don't get me wrong, we are all very grateful that you decided to produce this model. It is gorgeous. But for those of us who want to do more than just hang it on a wall, the "consortium"--in my very humble opinion only--really seems to have gotten it wrong when they opted for pickups with such low power that even old Gretsch HiLo Trons sound like a clap of thunder next to this guitar.

John Lennon was a to the point player and (with the exception of changing the finish, which is a matter of taste). The mods he made to his were very sensible to someone who is playing a guitar live day in/ day out. The oven knobs--while super cool looking, take a few seconds to get your hands on; the Kaufman vibrato's capacity to knock a guitar out of tune in seconds is one thing the consortium nailed with the reissues; and the middle pick up does do the tick tick tick with every strum that apparently bothered Lennon.

I am not one of these amazing people that know everything about Beatle gear, but given the results a hardcore gigging musician like Lennon would presumably have wanted from an instrument in 1960 it simply seems illogical to me that he would be content with the pickups if they had such low output, whatever the consortium determined.

Most of all though, it's really disappointing that you would almost seem to be mocking your company's biggest fans and supporters like this.
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Re: 325c58 Output and Wiring

Postby (johnhall) » Sun May 04, 2014 10:18 pm

Whatever.
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