I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

The short-scale model that changed history

Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4

Re: I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

Postby (scotty) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:23 pm

This is like an X file :lol:
User avatar
(scotty)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 7039
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:27 pm

Re: I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

Postby (deaconblues) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:09 pm

scotty wrote:This is like an X file :lol:


:lol: Welcome to the world of vintage 325s...
User avatar
(deaconblues)
RRF Consultant
 
Posts: 2376
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:14 pm

Re: I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

Postby (johnhall) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:14 pm

If you had a multi-million dollar instrument, would you allow it to be displayed in direct sunlight, in a sealed case, with no humidifying equipment?

I know I wouldn't and I also doubt that Karla Merrifield or her employer would either!

I'd also like to take a better look at the guitar stand. While it appears to be sleeved on the bottom supports, the neck one may not be. If that's a nylon tie wrap, it's okay for a few days but beyond that I'd be concerned.
User avatar
(johnhall)
RIC
 
Posts: 3920
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2000 12:17 pm
Location: Bradenham, Bucks, UK

Re: I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

Postby (godber) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:42 pm

Compare fretboard pics for evidence - very difficult to get exactly the same grain rosewood. It's also a fair assumption by John, that flimsy display wouldn't keep an Airfix safe :)
User avatar
(godber)
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 2647
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:07 pm

Re: I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

Postby (scotty) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:46 pm

Now that would be great to see...Have we any good links to close ups of the guitar with Lennon?
User avatar
(scotty)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 7039
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:27 pm

Re: I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

Postby (johnhall) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:15 pm

godber wrote:Compare fretboard pics for evidence - very difficult to get exactly the same grain rosewood. It's also a fair assumption by John, that flimsy display wouldn't keep an Airfix safe :)


If fact, we've already demonstrated that wood grain can be faked. It's very time consuming but relatively easy, requiring minimal talent and equipment.
User avatar
(johnhall)
RIC
 
Posts: 3920
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2000 12:17 pm
Location: Bradenham, Bucks, UK

Re: I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

Postby (DriftSpace) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:41 pm

deaconblues wrote:I'm saying I think it's real until I see proof otherwise. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, that's my view.

Which is more extraordinary: that John Lennon's (essentially priceless) guitar is "displayed in direct sunlight, in a sealed case, with no humidifying equipment," or that a high-quality forgery was made to protect the actual instrument -- a singular and historic relic of the modern musical era -- from potential theft or damage?

Where is sufficient "proof" either way? Just because you heard someone say something, or read something off a plaque: you think that's sufficient proof?

I don't think just because the museum claims the instrument as "authentic" that such a claim to authenticity is less "extraordinary" than the claim -- from the CEO of the company which makes these instruments, even -- that this is an exquisite forgery.

Places like the Hard Rock Cafe do this kind of thing all the time: they have replicas made for display, and put a little plaque below it that says what it's supposed to be. Scientific museums do it, too; the largest raw diamond ever found is on display in the Denver Museum of Nature and Science ... but it's actually a hunk of glass sculpted and/or molded by a professional, and the real one is in private storage. This practice is more common than you might think.
User avatar
(DriftSpace)
Member
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:07 pm
Location: Let down & hanging around

Re: I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

Postby (johnhall) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:07 pm

I have no idea whether this one particular one is a forgery or not. One might want to weigh a given museum's past history and reputation when trying to decide this.

But I and several other knowledgeable people have personally seen the Makoto Fujimaki instruments and I'm telling you they are perfect and undetectable.

Believe what you choose to believe.
User avatar
(johnhall)
RIC
 
Posts: 3920
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2000 12:17 pm
Location: Bradenham, Bucks, UK

Re: I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

Postby (DriftSpace) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:23 pm

johnhall wrote:I have no idea whether this one particular one is a forgery or not.

The important part is the part where you said you "have no idea," and I think that -- realistically -- there are a very small number of people who do.
Problems arise when people think they know things when they actually don't, and lots of people are gullible ... especially when it is becoming of them to believe something.

I don't know if it's real or not, but given that Mr. John Hall, CEO or RIC says he's seen "undetectable" replicas: I wouldn't be surprised if one of those was selected to be displayed in Cleveland. Maybe it is the real one in the original posting ... but I don't think anyone here has any irrefutable evidence either way.
User avatar
(DriftSpace)
Member
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:07 pm
Location: Let down & hanging around

Re: I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

Postby (collin) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:35 pm

FWIW, most people can't even pronounce the brand name correctly, so I don't put a lot of faith in "most people" to know a thing about the authenticity of this guitar.

I've seen equally rare celebrity guitars (EMP, Grammy museum) behind glass and in sunlight, so I have no reason to assume that this one is fake because of that.

Now....how can I get ahold of this Makoto Fujimaki guy? :) :lol:
User avatar
(collin)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6421
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:28 pm
Location: Corona, CA, USA

Re: I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

Postby (sloop_john_b) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:02 pm

collin wrote:Now....how can I get ahold of this Makoto Fujimaki guy? :) :lol:


+1!!!
User avatar
(sloop_john_b)
Rick-a-holic
 
Posts: 13634
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:00 am
Location: New York, New York

Re: I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

Postby (DriftSpace) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:30 am

collin wrote:Now....how can I get ahold of this Makoto Fujimaki guy? :) :lol:

+1, Indeed!

collin wrote:I've seen equally rare celebrity guitars (EMP, Grammy museum) behind glass and in sunlight, so I have no reason to assume that this one is fake because of that.


Agreed, but the reverse must also be as plausible; just because it's "behind glass and in sunlight" is not reason itself to believe it's the genuine article. :twisted:

Either way: I'd be excited to be in the presence of such a thing; either it's Lennon's actual guitar, or it's a secret, painstakingly-accurate reproduction. I wonder by what means people "in-the-know" would differentiate the replicas from the original were they to be mixed-up ...
Last edited by DriftSpace on Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
(DriftSpace)
Member
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:07 pm
Location: Let down & hanging around

Re: I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

Postby (DriftSpace) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:51 am

johnhall wrote:Makoto Fujimaki certainly appreciates everyone's attention to details.


Mr. Hall: from where did this name come?

Obviously this is some kind of behind-closed-doors information, but a few cursory Google searches reveal nothing relating this name to Rickenbacker guitars or John Lennon ... except for instances where you, Mr. Hall, have mentioned this name.

Who is Makoto Fujimaki, and how did you come to associate this person with replicas of Lennon's instrument?
User avatar
(DriftSpace)
Member
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:07 pm
Location: Let down & hanging around

Re: I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

Postby (jwilli) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:03 am

I remember that this info was divulged in 2001 or so. It was immediately jumped on as being "paranoid" by some. I have no proof either way BUT it is certainly possible. :D
Why? Lennon's guitars are PRICELESS. They may be worth more than any other instruments in the world.
User avatar
(jwilli)
RRF Consultant
 
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2000 9:45 pm
Location: Columbia, SC, USA

Re: I Saw the Holy Grail Today.

Postby (deaconblues) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:32 am

johnhall wrote:Believe what you choose to believe.


That I will.

Is it possible? Certainly. However -- in my opinion -- this is all just speculation until proven otherwise.
User avatar
(deaconblues)
RRF Consultant
 
Posts: 2376
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:14 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Rickenbacker Vintage 325 Models: by Glen Lambert

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest