Iron Door Club Filmed

[admin]

Geoff: I understand that the Undertakers were filmed at the Iron Door Club at some point. Do you recall the name of the movie that used some of the footage? Or am I mistaken?

[13_temple_street]

I have seen this film advertised for sale on the Internet,I cannot recall the title.
The BBC made the film in 1963,allegedly preferring to use the Iron Door in preference to the Cavern.In the film The Undertakers are playing on the stage,in the basement of the club.

[admin]

Geoff: I believe that the movie was entitled the Mersey Sound and was made in 1963 and directed by Don Haworth.

[hamilton_square]

Even though more than 3 years have passed since this particular thread topic was active, everything comes to those who wait or so I've been told … because low and behold the said 1963 BBC TV documentary has been recently posted (in three parts) on You Tube.

Part 1 …



Part 2 …



Part 3 …



Even after what is now 46 years, I can still manage to put names to a few of the generally lesser known faces being interviewed but likewise, there are a few who have got me stumped. So, I think it best advisable to leave that task to a better-suited Geoff Hogarth to comment on if needs be.

[13_temple_street]

Peter: Some of the musicians are still playing in different beat groups, from the Undertakers Geoff Nugent and Brian Jones still regarded as one of the finest saxophone players around. Eric London bass guitar for Faron's Flamingo's and Group one is playing with Nicky Crouches Mojo's, Harry Prytherch Remo Four, Dave Williams Dale Robert's and the Jay Walkers all active on the music scene, some of the musicians on the film I haven't noticed around for years. Looking at the footage of the film brought back many happy memories. Thank you for posting it I hope other members of the forum get as much satisfaction as I have.
You made a comment on one of your postings on the Liverpool site (Second Best Band ) The Big Three was one of the groups nominated you did pass the comment regarding the sound quality on 'Stomping at the Cavern'. The producer of that record was Noel Walker who informed me that it was a nightmare trying to get the sound right as the Cavern had all kinds of demons to trip up the most experienced of sound men. According to Noel the production team were working for a week before the recording could begin. Incidentally Noel Walker was a fine jazz musician 'Noel Walker Stompers' his band played many times at the Iron Door, Peter McCormack has the details on the Iron Door time-lines.
Finally I have been intrigued with your non-de-plume since you changed it, I have seen the outside of Tranmere Rovers football ground many times, Is this a birds eye view of that particular ground.

[hamilton_square]

Finally I have been intrigued with your non-de-plume since you changed it, I have seen the outside of Tranmere Rovers football ground many times, Is this a birds eye view of that particular ground.

Well Geoff, by a process of elimination, it’s certainly not Prenton Park (Tranmere Rovers) no matter how hard I wish it was and it most definitely isn’t Anfield (Liverpool) … so, by virtue of what’s left … it must be >>> HERE <<<

I’m not really all that surprised to hear you say that Dave Williams, Harry Prytherch and Eric London are still musically active in and around Merseyside. After all, I understand that wanting to stay firmly regionally rooted for work and family reasons was a principal motivating factor behind the formation of Group One. Apparently, even back then there were a fair number quite happy to stay in their own part-time back-yard, so to speak rather than go launching themselves out into the fully professional unknown on a fame and fortune long-shot

I’ve got to say, when on camera, Dave Williams in particular, comes across well. I suspect it may have had a lot to do with his articulate delivery and noticeably, less than strident Merseyside accent. I daresay that’s why he was allowed more talking time over that of others … which shouldn’t be at all surprising when one considers his middle-class upbringing. His father was a teacher; the family lived in the then Wirral village of Eastham and he went to school at Birkenhead Grammar, Oxon. And, before you ask Geoff, our paths never crossed by reason that Dave Williams was all of four years ahead of me in school and very much my senior when it came to mixing socially.

And, thanks for that bit of Cavern Sound Recording info … in these Internet days, when one realizes how much similar archived recordings and film footage is knocking around from that time, it’s just a pity that nothing else survives of a Big Three playing at full-throttle in a live environment.

All the best for the approaching festivities and wrap up well, it's starting to snow on my side of London and the temperature has dropped to frezzing. Weather reports from the UK Met Office are warning Councils to get the wraps off the road-gritters and load up with salt ... either snow / ice or both are seemingly on the way.

[winston]

What a great piece of history and a great read all around. Thanks gents

[hamilton_square]

Peter: Some of the musicians are still playing in different beat groups, from the Undertakers Geoff Nugent and Brian Jones still regarded as one of the finest saxophone players around.

Well Geoff, you said it … while these days I only get back to the motherland about 4 or 5 times a year, thanks to You Tube, Brian Jones sounds to me as if he’s playing his sax better now, at the age of 70, than he did more than 40 years ago.

Taped live on 20th August this year at a regular Merseycats get-together, look and listen to Brian Jones giving “Night Train” the treatment together with fellow Undertaker, Geoff Nuget on guitar … pity whoever was playing the drums was having a bit of a night off



While on the subject of saxophone players peforming with Liverpool groups … there is the rather unusual tale (well unusual for 1960s Liverpool) of one Johnny Phillips.

The ROADRUNNERS were most definitely not what you would have called your typical Liverpool group of the time. For a start, they were all grammar school / college educated boys. Their style was more influenced by black R&B music than other local groups. They played and practiced regularly in the “Everyman Club” basement of Hope Hall (now the Everyman Theatre) that backs onto what is now Liverpool University. And back then, very much a hangout for budding painters / poets / writers and the like. I guess you could say that the Everyman Club was the unofficial HQ for Liverpool students.

Then as the story goes, one day in either late 1962 or it could have been early 1963, a straight-off-the-boat, young 19-year old American boy from South Carolina by the name of Johnny Phillips walked into the Cavern. Apparently, young Johnny had got wind of something musical going on in Liverpool and together with his saxophone decided to come across the Atlantic and look-see for himself. And naturally, prior to landing on British shores, the Cavern was the only Liverpool music venue he had ever heard of. That evening the Roadrunners were performing and he somehow managed to southern-charm the group into letting him sit in on a couple of numbers ... needless to say, his playing made quite an impression that night.

Fast-forward to 1964 and the Roadrunners are doing a stint at The Star Club, Hamburg where they, together with a group from Scotland by the name of Shorty and Them, paired up to cut a live LP. Taken from that recording, listen to these two Roadrunner tracks featuring the playing of Johnny Phillips with I think, Mike Hart doing the vocals …

… first playing the saxophone on “Mary Ann”

Click Here To Listen

… then playing the flute on “Cry, Cry, Cry”

Click Here To Listen

After the Roadrunners time at the Star Club was up, they returned to Liverpool … but minus Johnny Phillips. Reportedly while in Hamburg, his musicianship had attracted the attention of more lucrative types of engagements than the Roadrunners were able to offer him. Also, I suspect that by 1964 the type of music that had initially brought Johnny Phillips all the way to Liverpool from America was beginning to wane in popularity. So understandably, having no particular emotional attachment to Liverpool, other than the music, he decided to move on to fresh pastures … and was never heard of again.

[13_temple_street]

Peter: Once again you have come up trumps delving the archives for this invaluable material for all visitors and members of the forum to share. How you are able to find all this stuff is absolutely amazing.
I thought your story of the lone American saxophone player interesting, this tale has passed me by it's a first for me. I thought he sounded faintly not too disimular to Howie Casey. But not in the same league.
I do however remember the basement of the Everyman I have slouched in there a few times, I remember Mackey from the Roadrunners was a frequent visitor I think he became president of the Students Union at the Liverpool College of Art.
May I extend seasonal greetings to you and your family:

[hamilton_square]

Peter: Once again you have come up trumps delving the archives for this invaluable material for all visitors and members of the forum to share. How you are able to find all this stuff is absolutely amazing.

Geoff, it basically all starts with you …

… for when you come out with some little bit of information or other, it triggers off in my brain some long since forgotten memory of those days that instinctively links itself to another, and so on … but it needs you, as the catalyst, to get the ball rolling.

However, being able to accurately and reliably recall faces and events of more than 45 years ago would be impossible for me to do without the fact-checking support of the wealth of source material that is available on the Web. It is just a question of knowing how to get the best out of the likes of Google and then being able to match the relevant facts with my own sometimes blurred recollections. Obviously, having both the inclination, patience and the necessary free time to carry out such search exercises does help … but like I said, the process needs you to initially kick things off for me.

For an example of the online material relating to the period that is available … go take a look at this dedicated-to-the-memory-of-the ROADRUNNERS site put together principally by Dave Boyce, drummer of the Roadrunners …

ROADRUNNERS

Well, that’s me done-and-dusted for 2009. I’m not staying in this climate for the next two weeks … we are off to the south of Spain on Tuesday … so, all being well, hope to be in forum contact with you again sometime next year.