Exploding "R" tailpiece? Fact or fiction?

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ngwca

Exploding "R" tailpiece? Fact or fiction?

Post by ngwca »

A reviewer at harmony central, in his review of the Ric 360/12 states that the "R" tailpiece is pre-destined to explode. You can read his less than glowing review of the guitar here: http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Rickenbacker/360-12-12-String-01.html The review in question is at the top of the page. My question is: Is this true? And, will the the foam material or rubber grommets under the pickups definately, without a doubt rot, as this reviewer says? It's an interesting review that many of you may have read.
wileyibex

Post by wileyibex »

Hi Nigel,

You may want to read the very recent thread about exploding "R" tailpieces at:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=alt.guitar.rickenbacker

I'm considering replacing the "R" tailpiece on my 360/12 with the older-style "trapeze" tailpiece...
360dave
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Post by 360dave »

Nigel...Just now I read the review you mention and I am glad to see that someone has the guts to say it like it is. That review is a real dose of reality that all RIC owners need to read, understand and accept as a fact of life.
The one and only time I contacted those folks I was insulted and told in no uncertain terms that they will not provide the service that I was willing to pay for. Perhaps the snotty little kid that spoke to me would have changed his attitude if I had taken the 15 minutes to go over there and let him see the look on my face.
Anyway, I seriously doubt that I will buy another RIC because the 58' 360 that I have is probably more desireable than the current models.
Another reason is that I don't like RIC's snob attitude.
There...I feel better now...I've been sitting on that for a lot of years.
The rubber grommets will harden after a number of years but they are replaced easily and cheaply. They can be found at any electronic store.
I have replaced all the grommets on my pups and 2 piece gold pickguard twice since 58'....the last time was about 6 months ago, so the grommets last quite awhile.
Regards
Dave
I've had 4 wives but I still have my 60' 360!
dave4004
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Post by dave4004 »

The guts to say it like it is? Spare me!!! HC is full of jerks with giant chips on their shoulders who make it their goal to trash manufacturers who displease them. Like this guy who rants about the warranty. Did a dealer give this guy a forged, counterfeited warranty? No. Then what's his problem? There's certainly no law requiring RIC to offer a lifetime warranty, and RIC certainly didn't misrepresent the terms of their warranty to him.

Now, I've never heard of the tailpiece issue, and I'm old. Maybe it is an issue, but let's try to get some facts before making judgments. A very small handful of people posting to a newsgroup claim to have had this problem. We have no idea whether the problem is infinitesimal or frequent, but I see no evidence here that any of this is happening within the warranty period and if so, that RIC has refused to repair it under warranty. But some people expect every component to last forever and be guaranteed forever.

And I just have to say here that my contact with RIC has been as friendly and pleasant as can be. Pride in the company? Yes. Snobbery? Never.

Sometimes manufacturers just do not provide certain services, whether or not someone is willing to pay for them. Happens all the time.
rick12dr
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Post by rick12dr »

From what I've seen on HC, I'm not impressed with these guys at all.Jerks, whiners, know it alls.
These guys can't accept for a minute we live in an imperfect world.Their "clue phone" is ringing, but they're not picking it up.....
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webhead
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Post by webhead »

I gotta add to this... I too have had issues with RIC as well. Two years ago I purchased a new 360/12v64 from a local dealer. It had indeed been hanging on the wall for about a year. I found out the truss rods were bowed. so the tips came out and hit the nameplate. Now, this is the way I got it. I called RIC after about a week after I bought it and discovered this. After going round and round with their personality less reps, they wouldn't agree to take the thing back because I took the nameplate off to look under it. I told them it that was a stupid policy. They said I voided the warranty because I took the stupid nameplate off!!! After a bit of screamin' at them --->They told me I had to ship it to them right away, because it was mid-December, the guitar would sit with them till the New Year because they have a long vacation. And to replace the damaged nameplate, which was because of the truss rods, I had to pay them for a new one!!! Another scenario I had was with a 350 about 4 years ago, the finish began to show "stains" under light. Now I know how to polish a RIC, but I owned this for a month and did not polish it at all when I noticed this. The wonderful helpful guys at RIC told me I got the guitar wet and therefore it was not covered under warranty. I no longer have these guitars as I have sold them, I only own a Carl Wilson Ric now, I love it, but I wish RIC would get their **** together and start catering to their customers a little better.. I never get this treatment from Gibson or Fender... For a company that has been around for so long, I am surprised they haven't fixed this problem....
"Take the RIC... Leave the cannoli."
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banta
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Post by banta »

[psychobabble]
Companies are run by and staffed with people. Remember that. People tend to react towards you based upon how they feel and how they think you feel. Even if you've got a good reason to be ticked off about something, people may react unfavorably if they sense hostility. So as hard as it may be to control your temper, remember that kindness is generally met with reciprocal kindness.
[/psychobabble]

As for the "exploding R tailpiece," I've had several Rics with these over the last 25 years and haven't had any trouble yet.
ngwca

Post by ngwca »

Wow! I didn't realize this question was a powder keg. I guess as long as it's the tail piece that is exploding and not the whole guitar, I'll deal with it when/if it happens. The tailpiece does seem to be made of uncharacteristically ****** material, though it looks great. And I like the idea of swapping it with the trapeze, which I'll do when I need to. Still, I love the guitar! The company MUST be reading these opinions periodically and I hope it has an impact since these things will influence my purchase of my next guitar....(A Gibson ES335 Reissue perhaps?) Thanks for the opinions.
ricrocks
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Post by ricrocks »

IMHO the vintage trapeze looks pretty cool.

Looking over the drawing on RICs site though, it appears that its bracket is wider and 4 holes need to be drilled to mount it in place of the R unit.

No?
wileyibex

Post by wileyibex »

I looked at the tailpiece brackets, and it appears from what I've seen at:

http://www.the-music-connection.com/ricpart.htm

that both the "R" and the "Trapeze" tailpieces use the same bracket. I don't know about the vaious and sundry fittings that pertain thereunto...guess that should be posted to the "Ask a Ric Luthier" board for the definitive answer.

There may be a method to preserve the rubber grommets and foam rubber around the pickups and pickguard as well (Armor-all???), but I've never used anything like that on the rubber parts on either of my Ric's. I'd imagine that, given storage and use under normal humidity and temperature conditions, the rubber parts should easily last decades without any special attention, though. The fellow on Harmony Central just appeared not to like a single thing about his Ric, RIC, the Yankees, Chinese food...

Still, I must say that I've been taken aback by the atavistic responses generated whenever a poster refers to RIC (the company). To suggest that there "could" be a problem with any aspect of RIC or any of their products, to suggest any change or improvement in their operations, to point out a percieved flaw, no matter how small, whether it be with design, engineering, construction, customer relations, dealer relations, company policies -- even to offer a suggestion for improvement -- is greeted with unpleasant, jingoistic replies from RF. Do bear in mind that RIC is a musical instrument maker, not a cult, after all...isn't it?

So I'll suggest that we maintain these discussions on a calm, rational tack. I certainly can't say how many tailpieces have failed; but obviously some have. Is it a serious or widespread problem? How many such failures would be it take to call the problem "serious?" I don't know, but let's not deny the fact that it has been a problem for several individuals that we know of. Rather than denying the report(s) and casting blame on the messenger(s), can we discuss the issue calmly, without accusations of untruth or "disloyalty?" It's just about a few broken tailpieces, right? So let's pick it up from there.

"Can't we just get along?"
- Rodney King
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ted_williams
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Post by ted_williams »

Yes, you must drill new holes to switch to the trapeze. And if you ever want to switch back, those holes will not be covered up by the original tailpiece bracket.

Also, I once had an "R" tailpiece break - on a secondhand Ric long out of warranty. I sucked it up and bought a new one - no problems so far. I've also heard that this problem is more prevalent with black hardware than with chrome hardware (mine was black).
360dave660
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Post by 360dave660 »

Perhaps a constructive approach would be for the active participants on this site to write their own HC reviews on these guitars. One of the best sources for the "real deal" on rickenbackers is here because so many of us are passionate about these instruments. Expressing our knowledge and interest on HC may provide a lot of helpful advice to potential ric musicians and debunk the myth that Ric is strickly a jingle/jangle rythym guitar. There're a lot of interesting guitar things occuring at ric : the 650s, the accoustics, the 380s the C-series.

I'm not certain that the contributors on rics for the HC site are as knowledgeable as some of us are here.
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Post by admin »

Good point Ted. You are correct about the different brackets used for the R and trapeze tailpieces. I switched to the trapeze as it provides more stability in my view, the instrument stays in turn better and it is a more vintage look campared to the R tailpiece. I like both buy prefer the trapeze.
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Post by fendertweed2 »

Armor All is terrible stuff, do NOT put it on anything you care about IMO. It ruins auto dashes when exposed to sun, causes premature cracking IMO.

Far better is Forumula 303, which has UV protection and not the slimy feel of Armor All
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Re: Exploding "R" tailpiece? Fact or fiction?

Post by bcrick12 »

Mine exploded tonight. 1990 360-12 FG OS
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