New Rickenbacker Colours in the UK

[sloop_john_b]

Just seems that whatever RIC does to try to please people or do something different or refrain from doing something different to get down the backorder, some aren't going to see the bright side of situation.

And that goes for every other guitar & bass manufacturer as well.

[TheFountainHead]

Ric hasn't done anything new in ages. This is a fact.

Even a rabble-rouser like me has to comment that this is wrong.

2-piece necks
adjustable hi gains
4004l, C, Cii
650's
660
one-offs
Ruby resurrection
"vintage" bass tailpiece and horseshoe resurrections
C********* series with its crazy accurate details

Define "ages," perhaps?

I guess "ages" would refer to the last ~10 years regarding *new* models, which seems like a long time to me.

The one-off finishes are technically new I suppose, but they're the exact same guitars (with the exception of different binding in some cases, a think a 660 neck was tossed on a 360 in one case as well). There's also only handful of these, so they're niche items and not available for order. They are cool, but they're not accessible to the regular consumer.

What I was getting at is there's been nothing *new* like when the 3001 was introduced. A "new* model doesn't have to be a radical departure from the old - even a bass neck on a 330/360/381 would be fresh and exciting. Ya know, something like that. IMHO.

[johnhall]

Only a brain-dead businessman would consider adding new models or options during a period when production is already severely constrained and over-booked.

The number of special color units is minuscule to overall production, simply a way to accommodate some of our best (wholesale) customer's requests. It certainly doesn't represent anything you could call "marketing".

Ruby, on the other hand, has as of today, added 39 production days to our schedule with zero tooling or additional production costs. Even some of you non-business savvy people should appreciate that statistic.

The concept that the customer is always right is and always have been a fairy tale. What is true is that a manufacturer's remit is to make what a customer will buy and that's something we do very well, especially as compared to many of our competitors.

Whatever you think, don't be so simple-minded to believe that we haven't had plenty of great ideas for new products and improvements. Those concepts and prototypes exist, ready to be polished and put into production at any time that it would make business sense. A precious few of you already know this for fact.

[incubus2432]

A precious few of you already know this for fact.

And the "not so precious" rest of us have no idea or evidence to support what has been hinted at for several years. Not to say that there is any obligation to supply evidence but when there is nothing to actually get our mitts on or even see or any direct statements it is only human nature for people to question or ponder possibilities, why nots and what-ifs.

I am perfectly content with not buying anything new since nothing interests me enough to pry my checkbook open. There is enough out there used or from other makers to satisfy my habit. The fact that I am not the target market doesn't bother me.......I only hope that someday what has been dangled like a carrot comes to fruition.

I do wonder, speaking as a brain dead businessman for sure, how much a new model or drastic model/hardware would hinder production backlog. I would think that if Shecky were in the market for a Ric and was about to order a new 4003 but now a newly designed Ric 4009-Shadoobee was announced then there would be a very real possibility that Shecky would like all of the new attractive features of a 4009-Shadoobee and order that instead of a 4003 thus making less 4003 demand and making room for new model production. Obviously not everyone would stray from the traditional models and retooling is still an issue but certainly, I would think, a new model would steal more customers, at least initially, from existing model customers who were going to order some Ric anyway rather than converts and fresh Ric buyers.

......or it's possible that I learned absolutely nothing about business and production in the police academy.

[johnhall]

I only hope that someday what has been dangled like a carrot comes to fruition.

There's no carrots being dangled. It's entirely possible that things will carry on just as they are and even quite likely they stay that way until I decide to retire. As such, these products may never see the light of day and that's just fine in a stable, profitable business situation.

The last thing any manufacturer wants is to steal his own customers away from a successful product . . . unless somehow the new product is more profitable or meets some new regulatory standard. Still, it's a very big risk when one simply isn't necessary.

Most importantly, timing is everything; even a lousy farmer has some idea when to plant the seeds . . . or not.

[fluffy]

I for one am quite content at the production time and current choices offered by Rickenbacker as a company.... I mean the last thing I need is tempted by EVEN MORE instruments I can't afford!!!!
Right on for being a collector and enthusiast and giving Rickenbacker business, which only counts if you buy the instruments from a proper Rickenbacker dealer...since the Hall's aren't exactly making any money off a '67 365 purchased from a boutique shop
I chose to purchase my Rickenbackers for their intended use... making music with them

[gareth]

I'm pretty sure RIC could coast forever with the models they have. I rather like the fact that it's boiled down to a few classic models that people just can't keep on the shelves.

The important thing is the sound though. That's what matters, so diluting that with new models isn't going to do much. I think RIC has experimented with this in the past with other models such as the 3000 series, the 610, and a whole host of others, that while good, didn't light the fire under people the way the traditional stuff does. What they have done as far as I can see, is to drill down into the details of quality control in a way that other mass manufacturers haven't. I've had RIC's for 35 years or more now, and I think that the current production of them is a high water mark for quality for the company. That's personally more important to me than a raft of new models, and certainly more important to the company in terms of maintaining a high price point.

The likes of us are the worst to do market research with too, as we aren't exactly the ones buying new stuff for the most part. If they asked me for instance, they'd be out of business in a year making re-issue models and weird combos of electronics. Having said that, I wouldn't mind seeing a studio bass variant along the lines of an updated active 4002 built on existing 4003 stock though. See, there I go again......

[redamber]

The concept that the customer is always right is and always has been is a fairy tale. What is true is that a manufacturer's remit is to make what a customer will buy and that's something we do very well, especially compared to many of our competitors.

Whatever you think, don't be so simple-minded to believe that we haven't had plenty of great ideas for new products and improvements. Those concepts and prototypes exist, ready to be polished and put into production at any time that it would make business sense. A precious few of you already know this for fact.

Having noted the recent discussion on this thread, I would just say:

I think JH's use of the term 'fairy tale' is regrettable - customers only spend their hard-earned money to buy products which they find appealing (for whatever reason), measured against the competition, and to that extent, surely they are indeed 'right'. It is almost 60 years since F C Hall bought Electro/Rickenbacker - and the fact that it has been a successful family-run business since then (hopefully moving seamlessly into a third generation) is very commendable - but complacency is a perpetual threat to any business, no matter how profitable. Let's see how Pearl White, Walnutburst & Ruby go, before drawing too many conclusions.

I am not surprised that the introduction of a new colour has added to the production schedule - but I do wonder whether this signifies a real increase in overall demand or just a substitutionary demand for the existing range of colours?

Do not underestimate the importance of the 'used' Rickenbacker market. If all the collectors (like me), were to off-load product onto the market, it would have an immediate and devastating impact on the demand and pricing for new Rickenbackers. Like it or not, the state of health of both new and used Rickenbackers are inextricably linked - just as they are for Mercedes, Rolex and other high-end marques.

As a collector. I would love to see the emergence of at least one new (perhaps limited edition) Rickenbacker model - such as a new Signature model - or what about a unique Anniversary Ric, dedicated to FCH? I still think it sad that I find myself more attracted to tracking down and investing in Rickenbacker models which are no longer in production, rather than the guitars in the current catalogue.

[johnallg]

..... I wouldn't mind seeing a studio bass variant along the lines of an updated active 4002 built on existing 4003 stock though. See, there I go again......

Gareth, you could work off a Larado or Cheyenne II bass, use the pickups you want, add the active electronics of your choice, and you'll have the studio bass of your dreams. It would be just as you wanted it, and still have the Rick feel and sound. You could even place the pups where you wanted them by filling in the factory routs and using a figured wood thin ply over the top.

[SoundAffectsMusic]

As someone in the thick of this from the retailer/consumer end I thought I'd chip in.

The limited white run was instigated by Rosetti on our behalf as we felt there was demand for something new like this as a small run. Rickenbacker worked with Rosetti to create something different without adding too much a of a premium to stimulate incremental business. Every enquiry I have had so far has been from a collector that wants to "add" to their collection and I don't believe it will cannibalise existing sales at all. There has been some criticism of the price (which hasn't fully landed yet) but people must understand that the guys are coming in on a saturday cleaning down the booths and making this short run. They are adding Vintage pickups and some other changes to a standard 330 model. And people expect this at the same price? As JH says; its a business at the end of the day. Rickenbacker have received an order, agreed to it and worked out a price. The order has been placed and if its such a bad idea muggins here will be stuck with them - anyone fancy a bet that I still have them left at Christmas? Would I have wanted 100 of them? No, not really - but give me a 100 Fireglo 330s and I know they will sell and for many years to come. Its a classic "if it ain't broke don't fix it". Maybe just tinkering around the edges without committing commercial suicide is worth a try though. I've seen 8 music go pop within a 50 mile radius of me in the last 12 months - no thanks. Its a time for caution and that goes right the way up the supply chain.

As for Ruby's - we now have quite few orders and all but one is again incremental sales and therefore additional demand has been stimulated. Its interesting that original post started with a focus on the 650 model - not the most popular one by anybody's standards (although I quite like). We had one guy phone up to order an 4003 Bass in Ruby and ended up ordering a 650 as well. He had seen the picture with all the models lined up and thought the 650 was a new model as it looked so different - another incremental sale.

There is so much legs in the current models and this extends to purchasers both young and old. We have just posted a picture on Facebook of our youngest new Rick buyer - a 15 year old that saved up from his paper round to buy a 330/12. Yes he's influenced by The Beatles and thats through Dad, but I don't think thats going to fade out anytime soon. Many of our purchasers are from a younger generation, and its a real aspirational purchase. Thankfully music tastes are so diverse that some of the great music from the past still resonates with a new generation and they see pictures of their heroes with Rickenbackers and want one. Maybe one of them will become the new generation - since the Beatles and The Who we've had Weller, Marr, Buck et al - not a bad line up.

Oh, and young violin players doubtless know the name Stradivarius......

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =1&theater

As for other manufacturers... some of them seem to bring a new model out each week with no regard for their heritage and brand. They literally "force" dealers to take new models (if you don't your out) so consumers have to buy them as these are the models on the wall - do we really want that from Rickenbacker? I personally get bored with the numbers of variants to the Strat and Tele - nice guitars as they are a collector could never collect "the set" as there are literally hundreds and hundreds. I have a wall full of Road Worn Strats that nobody wants as Fender got so excited with the honeymoon period of this "fad' that they overproduced and forced retailers to take them. I was given two weeks to buy or be closed down as a Fender dealer. Fender are ok as its small fry for them and they have forced them on shops, but for me its very expensive wallpaper!

So, in summary I like the way it is both as a seller but more importantly a (not so distant past) consumer.

I hope this side of the view helps goes a little way to opening some minds

Tim (SAM)

[scotty]

There has been some criticism of the price (which hasn't fully landed yet) but people must understand that the guys are coming in on a saturday cleaning down the booths and making this short run. They are adding Vintage pickups and some other changes to a standard 330 model. And people expect this at the same price?

Well Tim we will see what happens with the price when the guitars actually land on your shop.As for the moment as you have them priced at £2K im not expecting them at the same price that would be incredibly insular of me to think that.As it stands on your site a Pearl white is £600 more than a FG.Just for the record right now as we speak thats $949 above a standard 330FG .Ok i might be wrong but that dont justify toasters,gold TRC and guards.Im presuming that it shouldnt take that much longer to complete than a FG.People dont expect it at the same price but i dont expect it $949 over.
Im not saying that they wont fly out your door either im sure they will sell like hotcakes.

[fireglo67]

There has been some criticism of the price (which hasn't fully landed yet) but people must understand that the guys are coming in on a saturday cleaning down the booths and making this short run. They are adding Vintage pickups and some other changes to a standard 330 model. And people expect this at the same price?

Well Tim we will see what happens with the price when the guitars actually land on your shop.As for the moment as you have them priced at £2K im not expecting them at the same price that would be incredibly insular of me to think that.As it stands on your site a Pearl white is £600 more than a FG.Just for the record right now as we speak thats $949 above a standard 330FG .Ok i might be wrong but that dont justify toasters,gold TRC and guards.Im presuming that it shouldnt take that much longer to complete than a FG.People dont expect it at the same price but i dont expect it $949 over.
Im not saying that they wont fly out your door either im sure they will sell like hotcakes.

What the heck do you know Scotty? You're just an idiot punter who needs to open his mind.

[electrofaro]

What the heck do you know Scotty? You're just an idiot punter who needs to open his mind.

I thought politics weren't allowed to be discussed on RRF?

[paologregorio]

There has been some criticism of the price (which hasn't fully landed yet) but people must understand that the guys are coming in on a saturday cleaning down the booths and making this short run. They are adding Vintage pickups and some other changes to a standard 330 model. And people expect this at the same price?

Well Tim we will see what happens with the price when the guitars actually land on your shop.As for the moment as you have them priced at £2K im not expecting them at the same price that would be incredibly insular of me to think that.As it stands on your site a Pearl white is £600 more than a FG.Just for the record right now as we speak thats $949 above a standard 330FG .Ok i might be wrong but that dont justify toasters,gold TRC and guards.Im presuming that it shouldnt take that much longer to complete than a FG.People dont expect it at the same price but i dont expect it $949 over.
Im not saying that they wont fly out your door either im sure they will sell like hotcakes.

The guitars will also have the traditional "f" hole as well; that takes some CNC reprogramming and different cuts. For all we know, the model may have 21 frets as well. The price of toasters alone adds $100 to the guitar. IIRC, Pearl white is a tricky finish to apply, so the price of the finish input is greater as well.

[scotty]

See that puts another angle as if they are f hole and i hope to goodness 21fret.Surely not a 24 fret and f hole!!!!! no i dont want to think about it.......If they are 21 fret f hole and white i can see that its £2K!!! i thought it was just a 330 with gold TRC and guards and toasters? Ah well thats a different story Paul!

mnnnnnn So that has been confirmed then has it?