Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

General Rickenbacker discussion

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tamere
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Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

Post by tamere »

Two of my fav guitar players are Carl Wilson and Johnny Marr, both legendary Rickenbacker 12 string players...

However I noticed that both at some point in their career, switched to Gibson ES-335 12 strings..or in Carl Wilson's case, an Epiphone Riviera 12 string with a Gibson headstock/neck...

Johnny Marr, after using Rickenbacker for his first 3 Smiths albums switched to Gibson electric 12 for the last Smiths album and also subsequent session work...

Another artist choosing the Gibson ES-335 12 string for studio work is Bruce Springsteen who used it extensively on his Working On A Dream album...

Do people here have experience with BOTH models? What are the differences, sonically, in terms of playability etc? How come Gibson does not produce these anymore?

I love my Rickenbacker 360/12 however I've always been intrigued by the Gibson ES-335 12...In fact, right now, if it existed in lefty, I would consider a switch myself, for the sake of experimenting...
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8mileshigh
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Re: Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

Post by 8mileshigh »

I found the 335 too abrasive sonically. I really didn't care for them (I had two at one time). The neck pickup was ok for jazzier sounds, but again too heavy for my liking.
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collin
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Re: Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

Post by collin »

The reason Gibson doesn't make the ES-335-12 anymore is the sane reason Fender stopped making the Electric XII and Gretsch their 12-string - they lost the war for the electric 12-string.

Luckily for us, Rickenbacker won that market by offering a better product with features and tone that couldn't be duplicated by competitors, and has since become synonymous with electric 12-strings.

I can only guess why Wilson & Marr switched to Gibsons, but my guess is to switch up tones. The Gibson is completely different from the Rick, much darker sounding with traditional string arrangement. The headstock on the Gibson 12 is a little unwieldly and heavy though, IMO.
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Kingbreaker
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Re: Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

Post by Kingbreaker »

I'm pretty sure Miki Berenyi of Lush made the same switch (Rick to Gibson 335-12).
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Re: Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

Post by Wurlitzer »

Kingbreaker wrote:I'm pretty sure Miki Berenyi of Lush made the same switch (Rick to Gibson 335-12).
Or an epi

That was one of my favorite bands in the 90s
I saw them a couple times in Palo Alto.
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paologregorio
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Re: Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

Post by paologregorio »

collin wrote:The reason Gibson doesn't make the ES-335-12 anymore is the sane reason Fender stopped making the Electric XII and Gretsch their 12-string - they lost the war for the electric 12-string.
Amen! Enough said!

On a related note; aside from nothing else sounding like a Rick 12 string; no 12 string headstock even looks as cool as a Rick's! Who'd want to play a 12 string with a headstock that looks ridiculously too long! Those Gretsch and Gibby 12 string headstocks look hideous!
There is no reason to ever be bored.

...why yes, I suppose I do have a double bound guitar fetish...

"Uh, I like the double bounds. . . ."
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Re: Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

Post by Folkie »

Collin,

I don't doubt that the Gibson ES-335 12-string you played sounded "darker" than a Rick 12. But the difference in tone probably has more to do with body woods and pickups than it does with the fact that the Gibson is strung "traditional-style." In fact, having those high octaves struck first on downstrokes creates a treblier sound, one you can hear on the intro to R.E.M.'s "So. Central Rain" and the overdubs to "Talk About the Passion," (both played by Peter Buck on Mitch Easter's "traditionally-strung" Fender XII.) The bottom line is that the Gibson can't even approach the jangle and shimmer we associate with Rick 12's, and that's where we agree. :)

Robert
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Re: Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

Post by JakeK »

paologregorio wrote:On a related note; aside from nothing else sounding like a Rick 12 string; no 12 string headstock even looks as cool as a Rick's! Who'd want to play a 12 string with a headstock that looks ridiculously too long! Those Gretsch and Gibby 12 string headstocks look hideous!
Couldn't agree more.

The strangest non-doublneck, standalone 12-string guitar, the Gibson Firebird 12-string.

Besides bearing similar resemblance to a Fender Electric XII, it has the ungainly Gibson headstock.
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collin
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Re: Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

Post by collin »

Folkie wrote:Collin,

I don't doubt that the Gibson ES-335 12-string you played sounded "darker" than a Rick 12. But the difference in tone probably has more to do with body woods and pickups than it does with the fact that the Gibson is strung "traditional-style." In fact, having those high octaves struck first on downstrokes creates a treblier sound, one you can hear on the intro to R.E.M.'s "So. Central Rain" and the overdubs to "Talk About the Passion," (both played by Peter Buck on Mitch Easter's "traditionally-strung" Fender XII.) The bottom line is that the Gibson can't even approach the jangle and shimmer we associate with Rick 12's, and that's where we agree. :)

Robert
Robert, I suppose my sentence structure was unclear, but my statements about the dark sound and traditional string arrangement of the Gibson ES-335-12 are mutually exclusive notes. I have no remark on why it sounds darker.... It just does. And it has traditional string arrangement, in case the OP didn't know this.
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sloop_john_b
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Re: Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

Post by sloop_john_b »

The Firebird is awesome!

Strangest:

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tamere
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Re: Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

Post by tamere »

This thread inspired me to pull out my book on Rickenbacker 12 strings, there is some interesting reading regarding Carl Wilson...Jeff Foskett who joined and then later replaced Carl in the Beach Boys and with Brian Wilson is quoted as asking Carl why he switched to Epiphone after using Rickenbacker, Carl is quoted as saying that he had tuning issues with his Rick when playing live and that's what drove him to switch...Foskett later switched himself from Rick 12 to Epi & Gibson 12...Though I've sometimes seen him play the world's ugliest of Strat 12 live as well.

The Rickenbackers are beautiful instruments and the most aesthetic of all 12 strings, however I disagree that Gibson 12 headstocks are ugly, I think they're quite cool...Fender XII on the other, look ridiculous...

Anyways, it's interesting, this "war" of electric 12s...such a niche market...legendary protagonists though!
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sloop_john_b
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Re: Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

Post by sloop_john_b »

There is a lot to like about the 335-12. Better bridge, noiseless pickups, wider fretboard. It won't go where a Rick goes sonically, but sometimes that's not a bad thing.

Two more 335-12 players: Win Butler and David Byrne.
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jps
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Re: Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

Post by jps »

paologregorio wrote:On a related note; aside from nothing else sounding like a Rick 12 string; no 12 string headstock even looks as cool as a Rick's! Who'd want to play a 12 string with a headstock that looks ridiculously too long! Those Gretsch and Gibby 12 string headstocks look hideous!
This one, maybe? :wink:
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Danotron
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Re: Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

Post by Danotron »

I have both. They're both great guitars. That's all I have to say about that. :mrgreen:
tamere
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Re: Rickenbacker 12 vs Gibson ES-335 12

Post by tamere »

Since I am lefty and they don't exist for us, I am inclined to build my own Epiphone/Gibson 12 string mutant actually!!Epiphone body, flipped Gibson 12 neck. should not be hard to pull off :shock:
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