CITES II

[redamber]

Recently I read a somewhat scary article about the latest CITES II regulations, with particular reference to wood species such as Bubinga and Rosewood (wood that is now protected under the Washington Convention on the Protection of Nature (CITES I & CITES II).

The implications seem potentially quite serious:
- Use of certain varieties of these woods will be strictly regulated (or effectively prohibited) in the future.
- Transportation of (for example) guitars containing protected species of timber across international borders has implications for buyers and sellers - specifically, any rosewood or bubinga crossing international borders for commercial purposes will need the correct CITES certificate to do so (not surprisingly, at a cost!).
- Some manufacturers (eg Taylor) believe the new tighter regulations spell the end of the use of rosewood for all but the most expensive ranges of guitars.

Rosewood is used extensively on the fingerboards of many Rickenbacker models. Moreover, there is a long tradition of used Rickenbackers being bought and sold as part of a world-wide market. Indeed, I myself have imported a number of Rics from the US into the UK/Ireland - including a 650E Excalibur (African Vermillion wings on headstock and body) and a Rose Morris 1996 Reissue (Rosewood neck and fingerboard) - and have always assumed that I would sell some of my Rics back to owners in the States, if they showed an interest. Now, I'm just not sure how these new regulations will impact on such transactions.

So, I was wondering if anyone on the RRF has any specific knowledge of what CITES II means for the Rickenbacker Corporation and/or Ric owners (including those like me who live outside the US). Any advice will be welcome!

[jdogric12]

It's pretty scary, indeed. I'm no Gibson fanboy but they really got screwed a few years ago, and this has the potential to get even worse.

[squirebass]

Didn't I just read somewhere that neither "Bubinga" nor "Caribbean Rosewood" are really rosewood at all, at a DNA level as compared to the endangered stuff in Brazil and India?
I worry about that this too, not now, but when the mania begins for my music, and I really need to launch a world tour to promote it.

It just seems that there should be a way to sort out the differences between some guitar players bringing a few guitars into a country and an importer bringing massive amounts of rosewood into a country for economic gain!
Am I asking too much here?

[radapaw]

This article mentions 250 species of rosewood, and 3 species of bubinga, so rosewood or not, trouble. https://www.namm.org/issues-and-advocac ... nd-bubinga .

I'm under the impression that at least between Canadian and US borders a musician can still drive across the border with their personal instrument(s?).... you just have to hope the border guard doesn't decide you're trying to sell it, and I expect you'd have to fill out a form or 12 (Americans can also get a guitar 'passport' to speed things up, cute!) . Selling rosewood etc. across borders I believe requires CITES paperwork and regulations that will vary from country to country, I've heard it's a 3 month process here (Canada), but can't speak from experience.

Irish info https://www.npws.ie/documentation-required
US info https://www.fws.gov/international/permi ... ments.html
CDN info https://www.ec.gc.ca/cites/default.asp? ... 1BC82E16-1

[xcoyle]

Well, I had never heard of this Cites II regulation.

Was trying to purchase a Roger from Germany and the dealer informed me he can not send any guitars with rosewood out of the EU.

Interesting that it applies to vintage instruments as well.

[johnhall]

Caribbean Rosewood is not CITES listed, so it doesn't affect us as far as new instruments. Vintage instruments with various rosewoods and ebony, unfortunately, are a big problem until licensing is simplified for personal instrument owners.

[redamber]

Caribbean Rosewood is not CITES listed, so it doesn't affect us as far as new instruments. Vintage instruments with various rosewoods and ebony, unfortunately, are a big problem until licensing is simplified for personal instrument owners.

Thanks for your input, John. We await to see whatever simplified licensing system (if any) is introduced. Whilst I would expect that such a system will accommodate musicians who take their instruments back and forth across international borders for performance purposes, it is not at all clear if it will help instrument collectors like me who wish to buy/sell instruments in other countries as a hobby (i.e., not for commercial gain). And, of course, for owners like myself based in the United Kingdom, the forthcoming prospect of 'Brexit' may make it even more difficult, if we lose the benefit of freedom of movement of goods and people within the European Union!

At least the Ric Corporation has a robust Serial Number system, which enables the manufacturing date of every instrument to be accurately identified - which may be helpful in differentiating between instruments made before and after the CITES II regs came into effect.

Finally, a question: can you advise if there is a specific date after which the Rickenbacker Corporation used only (unlisted) Caribbean Rosewood in their guitars?

[johnhall]

Finally, a question: can you advise if there is a specific date after which the Rickenbacker Corporation used only (unlisted) Caribbean Rosewood in their guitars?

Unfortunately, there is no sharp cut-off date. Generally speaking, I think most all production at least as early as 2015 was Carribean Rosewood (Metopium brownei) but there were certain runs after that which used Bubinga (Guibourtia demeusei).


One of the best discussions of what happened on this round of CITES is here.

[maxwell]

^ ^ ^ Great article. Thanks for posting.

[RIC_FACTORY]

Was trying to purchase a Roger from Germany and the dealer informed me he can not send any guitars with rosewood out of the EU.

He would need to apply for a permit to do so... http://ec.europa.eu/environment/cites/i ... its_en.htm

That is at least a 3 month process I hear.

[8mileshigher]

This is a very interesting and informative thread .....