Is this song easy or difficult? (Tricky timing help)

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cassius987
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Is this song easy or difficult? (Tricky timing help)

Post by cassius987 »

I'll be playing this song in a Magnificat service for the second year in a row... And for the second year in a row, this song is messing with my head. It's relatively simple, but there's just something about the timing. As bassist, I have to cover the main "riff" which you hear at the intro (B C E ... B C E D A G C) and is a recurring motif throughout. [Our acoustic guitarist can't keep up with the recording's guitar part -- he's a strum-and-sing type. Also, my church emphasizes the African-American style of gospel music, so there is overall more reliance on the bass when we do just about anything.] The odd thing is... I can't seem to nail the timing. I always come in a little early or late unless I am focusing on the words being sung (rather than the rhythm pattern). This is unnerving! First time in my music life I've grappled with something so (apparently) simple. I mean, really, this seems like first year music student stuff.

It boils down to this: I can't really tell how I should count this song. If I start counting one way, I will switch to another at some point; and so on. I think it has something to do with the arpeggiated guitar timing subtly shifting in pattern or emphasis. Most critically, for the riff, I still haven't decided whether the first note comes in on the "1" or the "e of 1" (with a 16th note rest at beginning of measure).

If any of you music mavens want to tell me your thoughts, and even mock me a little, all are welcome...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLao9yHOfFU[/youtube]
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jps
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Re: Is this song easy or difficult? (Tricky timing help)

Post by jps »

Wish I could help but this is all I see there:

Can you post a link?
Screen Shot 2017-12-16 at 7.20.12 PM.png
clementc3
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Re: Is this song easy or difficult? (Tricky timing help)

Post by clementc3 »

I see a bit more but I cannot get the link to play:
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cassius987
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Re: Is this song easy or difficult? (Tricky timing help)

Post by cassius987 »

Sorry folks! I think I did the YT link wrong.

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Kiddwad57
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Re: Is this song easy or difficult? (Tricky timing help)

Post by Kiddwad57 »

My guess? Counting with that acoustic guitar pulse I hear a four bar phrase, with the first half of the opening lick starting right on the downbeat, and the second half starting on the downbeat of bar 3. Everything else is on the off beats.

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jps
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Re: Is this song easy or difficult? (Tricky timing help)

Post by jps »

The timing reminded me of this song, one that the lead guitarist in a band I was in could never figure out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV4DiAyExN0

Perhaps the fact that your guitarist is "strum-and-sing type" that is throwing off your timing? The rhythm guitarist in the same band I referred to above was pretty much like that and had a hard time with strumming styles other than typical folk music strumming; he drove me nuts and messed with my timing, too.
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Kiddwad57
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Re: Is this song easy or difficult? (Tricky timing help)

Post by Kiddwad57 »

Another one with staggered quarter notes syncopated from an eighth note downbeat!

Here's the intro from Lulu's To Sir, With Love; took a while to get that one (Sorry 'bout the treble clef, I transcribed it for the guitarist):
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Where's the one?! (It's in the strings.)
Where's the one?! (It's in the strings.)
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cassius987
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Re: Is this song easy or difficult? (Tricky timing help)

Post by cassius987 »

Kiddwad57 wrote:My guess? Counting with that acoustic guitar pulse I hear a four bar phrase, with the first half of the opening lick starting right on the downbeat, and the second half starting on the downbeat of bar 3. Everything else is on the off beats.
Agreed in full! But to get it to work with the band, I have to think of coming in on the "e of 1", the worship director literally asking me to take a breath prior to the first note.

Jeff, you may be right that there is something contextual happening with another instrument in the mix like the guitar. I can play along with the track a lot easier than with the band. We're an otherwise very competent group of musicians, I swear... :lol:

That being said, it really came together this morning when I just told myself to do what feels right regardless of what people say. At the same time, I set my ego aside and just hoped to make a joyful noise, as they say in many churches. It seemed to work -- someone in the audience shouted "Beautiful!" Since this was a church service, the main goal is for me to step aside and let worship happen, not worry about particulars of my performance.

Thanks for all of your comments!
Last edited by cassius987 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cassius987
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Re: Is this song easy or difficult? (Tricky timing help)

Post by cassius987 »

Kiddwad57 wrote:Another one with staggered quarter notes syncopated from an eighth note downbeat!
Thanks for that interesting example!
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Kiddwad57
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Re: Is this song easy or difficult? (Tricky timing help)

Post by Kiddwad57 »

Hey, Again,

I realize you've already had your performance, so congrats on a job well done!
cassius987 wrote:...whether the first note comes in on the "1" or the "e of 1" (with a 16th note rest at beginning of measure)... the worship director literally asking me to take a breath prior to the first note...I set my ego aside and just hoped to make a joyful noise, as they say in many churches...It seemed to work -- someone in the audience shouted "Beautiful!" *
Thank God for musical directors! You didn't mention whether you were reading a chart or playing it by ear, but in either case it sounds like you're referring to a delay of the downbeat and if notated the figure would probably still be represented in that way. Even with written charts there is a lot of room for interpretation and that's why a musical director, or at least an agreement within the ensemble, is so useful.

*That kind of positive reaction always feels good!

I can't remember if it was Carvin, or one of the mail order music stores, that used to use Psalm 98:4–6 in their catalogs around 1971. Nonetheless, I've tried to live the ideal, to the point of paying a number of "Loud and Raucous Noise" complaints over the years!

Congrats again on a successful gig.
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jacolyte
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Re: Is this song easy or difficult? (Tricky timing help)

Post by jacolyte »

the very first note - the B - is on the 1.
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