Echo Units Past and Present

Performing and Interpreting Shadows' Music

Echo Units Past and Present

Postby (admin) » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:10 pm

Brian: There are a number of digital echo units that simulated the Meazzi, Binson, Vox and Roland tape echoes used by Hank Marvin and The Shadows in their recordings over the years. I have used the Yamaha Magic Stomp with some success and I have heard of the Zoom 508 delay unit as well.

Is there a new kid on the block or are we still in the position of having to buy units that are no longer manufactured?

For some delays, the Boss RE-20 has some nice echoes that approximate those used by Marvin, for example. Are there others of which you are aware?
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Re: Echo Units Past and Present

Postby (bitzerguy) » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:28 pm

I had the opportunity to try out the new DigiTech TimeBender. Very impressive.

You can even vary the repeats similar to a moving head tape unit, and similar to the repeats in Brian's Apache video. The tone was very, very good. Priced in the POD DL4 modeller range. This is not your modeller pedal/digital delay pedal at all.
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Re: Echo Units Past and Present

Postby (admin) » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:49 pm

Dean: The DigiTech TimeBender is very interesting but I started to walk away after learning about the limited number of presets at 4! It does have some great possibilities, however. Thanks for this reference.
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Re: Echo Units Past and Present

Postby (bholden) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:33 pm

Peter: The Zoom 508 echo effects is ideal to digitally recreate convincingly, the guitar sounds of Hank Marvin of the 1960s–70s group The Shadows - BUT it is a rare beast that has long been out of manufacture. Owning one has become almost a privilege as they are keenly sought after by Shadows guitarists world wide, particularly in Europe.

At gigs, rather than hook up my 508, I actually use a grunty Korg AX3000G - the "new kid in town" which has a comprehensive multi-tap echo facility, pre-programmed with all my Shadows sounds as well as all the other numbers I play. With respeact to other gear, there are enthusiasts out there who have done an amazing job emulating the sounds of each Shadows song right down to the last blip of echo using a multitude of home-made devices. These sound "recreationists" are to be commended, but sadly as time goes by, these memorable sounds will no longer be treasured because our generation will give way to those who won't give a toss!

For me, I strive to get the general Shadows feeling for each song without getting too hung up about the exact settings - I have a life! Dare I say, some of my settings suit some songs even better than those of the original - but of course that's purely a matter of opinion!

I did own a very respectable Boss GT-6 but found the tone was more suited to rock and there was no multi-tap which is essential for Shadows stuff. Seriously, I would recommend an AX3000G or even the (more limited) AX1500G - they're awesome!
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Re: Echo Units Past and Present

Postby (ozover50) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:42 pm

I've been using a Korg AX1500G for a few years now... excellent unit!

Not that I play any Shadows songs.......... :?
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Re: Echo Units Past and Present

Postby (jingle_jangle) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:27 pm

E-H Stereo Memory-Man with Hazarai. It even does ping-pong effects. Infinitely programmable.

But only when I don't want to mess with one of my vintage tape units...
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Re: Echo Units Past and Present

Postby (kenposurf) » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:25 pm

Had a Fulltone tape echo that I liked but needed a bit of carre and feeding..tried the Memory Man which has some nice features..went to the Yamaha Magic Stomp 2 which I've downloaded the Charlie Hall patches which are awesome...this one is in my future though

http://www.crucialaudio.com/echonugget.htm
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Re: Echo Units Past and Present

Postby (jimk) » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:47 pm

Does the MXR Carbon Copy qualify for discussion here?
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Re: Echo Units Past and Present

Postby (kenposurf) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:40 pm

jimk wrote:Does the MXR Carbon Copy qualify for discussion here?
JimK

I've heard good things about it from some of the guys at the surf guitar forum...have you tried it?
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Re: Echo Units Past and Present

Postby (glen_l) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:59 pm

The other option that a lot of enthusiasts have used, and even Hank himself is an Alesis QuadraVerb 2 or Q20 loaded with with Echoes From The Past.

Here's a review I found - The Alesis Q20 (successor to the original QuadraVerb 2, but now unfortunately out of production) is able to be custom configured. Programmer Charlie Hall's analysis and replication of The Shadows' vintage echoes (in particular the elusive, hard to nail Shadows' signatures) are unbelievably accurate and authentic. Anyone who is seriously interested in sounding like The Shadows used to way back then should try to lay their hands on an Alesis QuadraVerb 2 or Q20 which has been loaded with Echoes From The Past (the Q20 is the more desirable of these units as it has a larger internal memory and is therefore capable of more accurate simulations than the earlier QuadraVerb 2). Dick Denney thought that the Echoes From The Past replications "are better than the original valve units of the 50's and 60's used to be. Denny was VOX's Chief Designer from 1957 through to 1967, and he is known as the "Father" of VOX's ubiquitous AC15 and AC30 Amplifiers, as well as the famous "Long Tom" Echo Unit.

The other unit Hank uses is the TVS3 Echo System which offers complete programmability of the echoes. Up to 100 patches can be stored. The unit is supplied with 30 patches already installed, and these cover all of the operating modes of the original Meazzi Echomatic 1 and 2, as well as some Binson, Echoplex, Roland Space Echo and Echolette modalities. Updates are provided for additional patches as they are developed in response to user feedback. Modification of the patches or programming of new echoes is via a serial link to a PC or laptop using a supplied program.
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Re: Echo Units Past and Present

Postby (jimk) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:54 pm

kenposurf wrote:
jimk wrote:Does the MXR Carbon Copy qualify for discussion here?
JimK

I've heard good things about it from some of the guys at the surf guitar forum...have you tried it?

Yup. I own one in fact. I was interested in a delay pedal because I wanted to get something of a rockabilly sound. It may not be as good as a high-end tape echo device, but I certainly like the way my 12 string sounds with it, and the reverb on my amp turned way up.
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Re: Echo Units Past and Present

Postby (doctorno) » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:36 pm

I love my BOSS DD-20 because it allows me to control the delay time precisely. Its tape echo emulation is not as flexibel as that of the RE-20 but has the same great sound.
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Re: Echo Units Past and Present

Postby (westaussie) » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:05 pm

Mine is well and truly from the past. It's a mid sixties WEM Custom Copicat. I bought it secondhand not long after I got my Rickenbacker. It still works well. ( I have another older model as well, but that's got problems.)
I picked it up for a song at a junk shop, - the proprietor didn't know what it was - he said he thought it was some sort of strange tape recorder but didn't know how it worked.
I tried various other solid state types over the years, but kept coming back to the Watkins. It's hard to explain, but for me it just had "that" sound. One thing that I did notice, was that the solid state types were too precise, if that makes any sense.
There was always that hint of wow and flutter in the Watkins delays, seemed more natural to me. Plus the fact that it was valve driven, - had a very warm tone. The echo and delay adjustments were seamless, and the depth control was excellent.
I also found it to be a very useful preamp, - switching off the delay and cranking up the gain until it was overdriving. Produced a beautiful fat dirty sound. Running that through a Roland PA250 and into a pair of 150W Peavey Mk111 boxes, I could rattle every window for two blocks. :mrgreen:
We used to play a lot of instrumentals using it, some of which were Shadows plus various others. - Apache, Walk Don't Run, FBI, The Boys, Bombora, White Rabbit, Pipeline, Albatross, Wheels, Joey's Theme, to name a few that I can think of.
Main drawback was maintenance, periodically replacing the tape, cleaning the heads, lubricating the rollers. Another was having to remember the exact settings for each tune. Tape noise was a minor annoyance. I used it continuously for almost 20 years without any problems. Great little piece of gear and testament to Mr Watkins' very clever engineering.skills.

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Re: Echo Units Past and Present

Postby (teb) » Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:37 am

Slightly off topic, but interesting.....Ever been inside an echo chamber? One of the studios we used to record at had a natural echo chamber that put out really sweet sound. It was a room about 6' wide, maybe 25' long with a fairly tall ceiling. The inside was paneled with particle board, there was a light bulb in the ceiling, a speaker at one end and a mic at the other. the rest was just empty space and I guess they had some means to send the sound in there, pick it back up and then blend a certain portion back into the mix. Great sound, though not particularly portable for gigging.
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Re: Echo Units Past and Present

Postby (kenposurf) » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:30 am

As mentioned in a previous post..had a Fulltone Tape Echo..and a Magic Stomp w/ Mr Hall's programs ..that sounded fantastic! But for real world gigging I've now been using a MXR Carbon Copy..I set everything at 12;00 o'clock and have been happy with the results..no not spot on for every Shadows song but the feel is there
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