High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

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Re: High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

Postby (Melma) » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:21 am

"I don't personally work on the electronic aspects of my guitars (I'm too neurotic and I'm always afraid I'm going to screw something up)"

Be slow and methodical! I used to be too scared to open my guitars, but as long as you don't rush yourself and keep track of all the parts you've ripped out, you should be fine.
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Re: High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

Postby (cedbenson) » Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:43 am

The sound of a Rickenbacker is formed by the acoustics of the guitar, not the pickups. This hype about toaster pickups better than high gain pickups has no audible foundation. I've been playing guitars and Rickenbackers all my life (50 years) and I don't even think twice about it being a big deal. Furthermore, I've listened to hundreds of comparisons and if there is a difference, it’s very minute and probably due to fluctuations in the structure of the guitar or setting of the glues in the wood. The voice is produced by acoustics within the cavities of the mouth, and the same applies with an instrument. This whole thing has gotten way out of whack.
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Re: High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

Postby (stsang) » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:25 am

cedbenson wrote:The sound of a Rickenbacker is formed by the acoustics of the guitar, not the pickups. This hype about toaster pickups better than high gain pickups has no audible foundation. I've been playing guitars and Rickenbackers all my life (50 years) and I don't even think twice about it being a big deal. Furthermore, I've listened to hundreds of comparisons and if there is a difference, it’s very minute and probably due to fluctuations in the structure of the guitar or setting of the glues in the wood. The voice is produced by acoustics within the cavities of the mouth, and the same applies with an instrument. This whole thing has gotten way out of whack.

Interesting observations! I love hearing from folks with so much experience. I am now lucky enough to have two Ric 12 strings to directly compare and I now lean toward the 'pickups do not make a huge difference crowd'. In addition to acoustics I find that strings make a big difference to a guitar's tone and feel. In fact I think the interaction between the strings and the pickups is where different pickups can make some difference but that could simply be due to the louder pickups amplifying the difference.
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Re: High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

Postby (paologregorio) » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:51 am

stsang wrote:
paologregorio wrote:Follow up; I installed 7.4K "Scatterwound" toasters on my six string WB Blue Boy. The guitar lacked the clarity and output across the tonal range that another WB of mine, Big Red, has that is equipped with "hot" toasters. With the amp set the same for both guitars, there was a significant, noticeable difference If I used any sort of overdrive or boost, the higher output toasters sustained a lot better and had far more punch. With clean tones the difference was more subtle, but to my ear, the hot toasters win hands down for six strings. I primarily used the bridge pickup position, but I found similar results when using the neck or both p/ups. I installed hot toasters on the Blue Boy and am much happier with the sound. 8)

There is a certain degree of sweetness to the lower output toasters, however. :D

Hi Paul, thanks for sharing that. Could you also comment on how high gains compare to the hot toasters? I'm interested to hear about your experience with that.


Sorry for not answering this before. My experience with hi gains is somewhat limited, as I've only had two guitars equipped with hi gains. I didn't notice much difference between the hot toaster and the hi gain. They're both about 12K, output-wise. Any difference is due to the use of six alnico magnets vs. one single ceramic bar magnet. I think the Alnico 3 magnets Sergio uses are supposed to have a "sweeter" tone to them, and when using Sergio wound coils I use a 14K in the bridge and a 12 K in the neck, for more balanced output. The 14K bridge has more mids.
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High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

Postby (8mileshigher) » Fri May 18, 2012 1:59 pm

This is a really good thread .... I just went and re-read it from the beginning and there is a wealth of knowledge, opinions and empirical test results posted, here on the subject of comparing Scatterwounds, Hot Toasters and High Gains.

There is certainly an infinite variety of tones that can be derived from Rickenbackers .... and to my ear, I think all the pickups do have very different sounds, when plugged in at the same amp settings. That's why I like having a variety of Rics with the cornucopia of available Pick ups.

My 2006 330 has High Gains (without the removable posts)
My 2004 660-12 has Scatterwound Toasters
My 2003 360-12 has Scatterwound Toasters
My 1999 V64 six string has the Hot Toasters
My 1996 650 Atlantis has the HB1's
My 1981 370 WB has two Toaster-covered 2011 version High Gains (11k Ω and 12k Ω ) and an HB1 (15.4k Ω) in the Bridge
My 1973 480 has the early/transitional version 381 High Gains (straight posts without caps)
My 1961 Console Steel has an original Horse Shoe
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Re: High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

Postby (stsang) » Fri May 18, 2012 2:23 pm

8mileshigher wrote:This is a really good thread .... I just went and re-read it from the beginning and there is a wealth of knowledge, opinions and empirical test results posted, here on the subject of comparing Scatterwounds, Hot Toasters and High Gains.

There is certainly an infinite variety of tones that can be derived from Rickenbackers .... and to my ear, I think all the pickups do have very different sounds, when plugged in at the same amp settings. That's why I like having a variety of Rics with the cornucopia of available Pick ups.

My 2006 330 has High Gains (without the removable posts)
My 2004 660-12 has Scatterwound Toasters
My 2003 360-12 has Scatterwound Toasters
My 1999 V64 six string has the Hot Toasters
My 1996 650 Atlantis has the HB1's
My 1981 370 WB has two Toaster-covered 2011 version High Gains (11k Ω and 12k Ω ) and an HB1 (15.4k Ω) in the Bridge
My 1973 480 has the early/transitional version 381 High Gains (straight posts without caps)
My 1961 Console Steel has an original Horse Shoe

Rich - that is an *awesome* collection of Rics! :o
2010 360/12c63 FG
2002 360/12 MG (mod with 7.4K scatterwound toasters, push/pull switch for 0.0047uF bridge cap)
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Re: High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

Postby (8mileshigher) » Fri May 18, 2012 2:43 pm

stsang wrote:
8mileshigher wrote:This is a really good thread .... I just went and re-read it from the beginning and there is a wealth of knowledge, opinions and empirical test results posted, here on the subject of comparing Scatterwounds, Hot Toasters and High Gains.

There is certainly an infinite variety of tones that can be derived from Rickenbackers .... and to my ear, I think all the pickups do have very different sounds, when plugged in at the same amp settings. That's why I like having a variety of Rics with the cornucopia of available Pick ups.

My 2006 330 has High Gains (without the removable posts)
My 2004 660-12 has Scatterwound Toasters
My 2003 360-12 has Scatterwound Toasters
My 1999 V64 six string has the Hot Toasters
My 1996 650 Atlantis has the HB1's
My 1981 370 WB has two Toaster-covered 2011 version High Gains (11k Ω and 12k Ω ) and an HB1 (15.4k Ω) in the Bridge
My 1973 480 has the early/transitional version 381 High Gains (straight posts without caps)
My 1961 Console Steel has an original Horse Shoe

Rich - that is an *awesome* collection of Rics! :o


Thanks, Simon ! :wink: :D
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Re: High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

Postby (JakeK) » Fri May 18, 2012 2:53 pm

Rich's 480 has some of the hottest pickups I've ever heard. Could cut through bricks. If you're ever complaining that you can't hear yourself, pick up Rich's 480...you'll hear yourself then!

His 660/12 sounds good, too, and plays like a dream. Although scatterwounds do sound good, my favorites will always be hot toasters. Rich, you'll have to let me give the V64 6-string a whirl when I come to SoCal this year! :wink: :D

Of course, that may all change if I get the chance to test drive a 360/12 Carl Wilson this year...
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Re: High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

Postby (Emanuel-Bassist) » Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:24 pm

I have a 92 V63 4001 and I'm not wild about the hot toaster in it. I unwound a hi-gain in another ricky bass to about 7 or 8K and really like it in the neck position. What should I sell a hot toaster for? I want to replace the hot one in the V63. P.S. I love the hot horseshoe though. Thanx Manny.
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Re: High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

Postby (johnallg) » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:41 pm

Emanuel-Bassist wrote:I have a 92 V63 4001 and I'm not wild about the hot toaster in it. I unwound a hi-gain in another ricky bass to about 7 or 8K and really like it in the neck position. What should I sell a hot toaster for? I want to replace the hot one in the V63. P.S. I love the hot horseshoe though. Thanx Manny.

Since 11k toasters are fairly rare I would think you could get $150 for one. Maybe as low as $125. MHO
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Re: High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

Postby (Emanuel-Bassist) » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:50 am

EmanuelBassist V63.jpg
"Hear" she is!!! the V63
Thanx again John! you have helped me out a number of times. I had thought they would be more valuable having become harder to find and with some players (mostly guitarists) preferring them. If a hot toaster is only worth what I can buy a 7.4 for from pickothericks then I'll just unwind it like I did with the modern hi-gains. It just seems really stupid to unwind a pickup that people are LOOKING for and has not been produced for approaching 20 years! All I care about is sound anyway.

PS I just bought a MarkBass MoMark amp in a configuration that allows me to run rick-o-sound
with two discreet channels that are summed at the master module (more like quasi-rick0sound)
so the output differences between bass and treble pickups is a non issue. The V63 is the bass Ive always wanted and know I have it. Its a 92 and sat in its case all that time!
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Re: High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

Postby (jps) » Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:00 pm

Emanuel-Bassist wrote:PS I just bought a MarkBass MoMark amp in a configuration that allows me to run rick-o-sound
with two discreet channels that are summed at the master module (more like quasi-rick0sound)
so the output differences between bass and treble pickups is a non issue. The V63 is the bass Ive always wanted and know I have it. Its a 92 and sat in its case all that time!

Has the V63 been rewired for ROS?
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Re: High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

Postby (Emanuel-Bassist) » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:13 am

Not yet, I had to purchase the amp and test it first with a bass that is wired for stereo (a passive modified 86 Charvel-Jackson 3b I use for recording). I did my tests and the amp passed with flying colours.
But yes I will be wiring it Bass pickup vol-tone Tip/Treble pickup vol-tone ring/grounds to sleeve on a 3 lug jack. I'm going to be putting together a special pedal board to take advantage of this new live setup and it will start with a A/B-Both-Tuner switchbox so I don't need the pickup selector on the bass, I thinking about using that to take a .0047 inline cap in and out of the Treble pickup circuit.
Right now it's about putting the money together for all this stuff, I'm trying to sell off my Mesa amps locally and that's going to fund the rest of my ultra lite/rick0sound plan!

P.S. Has anybody tried your Ricks though a fEARFULL cab?
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Re: High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

Postby (jps) » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:49 am

I don't have a true "fEARful" cab but what I do have is pretty awesome sounding. 8)

LDS_2126-1200_9724.jpg


Don Oatman built this for me with two 3012LFs and a 6ND410 to a design we came up with together; at the time I was not familiar with Greenboy's design so this is just a cousin to his concept, so to speak. I also have a scaled down version using two Ciare NDC8-3 drivers and the same 18Sound mid/high as the 2-12 cabinet.

LDS-286_1280_RRF_8331.jpg


ROS would sound very cool with those two cabinets, I should try it sometime with my early '73 4001 and my Walter Woods Super and Aguilar Tone Hammer 500 amps. :D
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Re: High gain (11k) toasters vs. 7.4k toasters

Postby (Emanuel-Bassist) » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:00 am

This is the MoMark. 9 lbs in it's bag and LOUD! Not quite the same as ROS thru two Mesa set ups
(M6 Carbine combo and Big Block 750-412 cab) but much less to worry about. With this set up, when it's done, I'll be able to EQ/set level for each pickup and split effects.
photo.JPG

Love this forum, love Rickenbacker. Thanx for all the imput. Lets pick this bass cab talk up tomorrow! E.
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